I am interested in aquiring a very good cross of this hybrid. I wonder what people think are some of the best breeding available out there and where I might be able to find one.

Thank you!

I think Ratcliffe made a good Lady Isabel cross a few years ago. And I think I even have some really big ones... But I'm not sure.

That said, I don't know of any _bad_ Lady Isabel crosses. I suppose somebody could have screwed one up by using inferior parents, but most people who plan on waiting as long as it takes for multiflorals to bloom usually think twice before getting the toothpicks out.

However... If you want a really good Lady Isabel, your best bet is to pick up a division or buy one in bloom. Regardless of how good a cross is, there will be good ones and bad ones in any population. You don't have space to do it the other way, which is buying 10 or so and blooming them all. Then you can be reasonably assured of getting at least one very good one. This works for all orchid crosses (all hybridizing regardless of species, actually).

(let me try this again...omnipotent moderator gone bad...) :roll:

Ratcliffe is out of them. :wink:

Have you bloomed your's Rob? Any thoughts? Comments? Judges reports? :poke:

I'd be interest in hearing if you had any available. No, I don't know where I would put it of course, but you know, buy now, ask questions later....

(let me try this again...omnipotent moderator gone bad...) :roll:

Ratcliffe is out of them. :wink:

Have you bloomed your's Rob? Any thoughts? Comments? Judges reports? :poke:

I'd be interest in hearing if you had any available. No, I don't know where I would put it of course, but you know, buy now, ask questions later....

Ahhh, that's what I like to hear. Always follow rule 1. I'll look tonight. I do know I have big Bel Royale and St. Swithin from them. I think there is at least one Lady Isabel, but I'm not sure. They are all about 2 feet across, but no blooms yet.

I haven't looked, but Orchid Inn might have some good ones.

Rob

Ahhh, that's what I like to hear. Always follow rule 1. I'll look tonight. I do know I have big Bel Royale and St. Swithin from them. I think there is at least one Lady Isabel, but I'm not sure. They are all about 2 feet across, but no blooms yet.

I haven't looked, but Orchid Inn might have some good ones.

Rob

LOL! I bought their Bel Royale baby today - and so did Susan! Hahhaha - everyone's been a-shopping at Rats today....:D I also have a large St. from them, which I thought was in sheath but now it may be only a leaf...:(
Orchid Inn, I saw none on their latest list, unfortunately.

Cool, thanks for looking Rob!

Anyone know who is the person who has the clonal epithet 'Bion'? I see it a lot...thanks!

This may be off-topic here (just begging for an omnipotent mod to move me somewhere else I guess :-dance: ) but, has anyone been to Ratcliffe's in person?
I am heading up to Orlando next month and was thinking of stopping by.

I have never met them in person but heather and I have bought many great plants from them. I also spoke with them and they were very nice and pleasant on the phone. So, definitely visit their greenhouse and take pics for us! :lol: :thumbsup:

This may be off-topic here (just begging for an omnipotent mod to move me somewhere else I guess :-dance: ) but, has anyone been to Ratcliffe's in person?
I am heading up to Orlando next month and was thinking of stopping by.

Definitely email them - Mary handles the business side -
Do tell her we sent you, please - we're really trying to generate some business for good vendors through the forum, and perhaps they will stop by for a visit!
:D

orchidbabies has paphiopedilum lady isabel (stonei 'The Best' x rothschildianum 'Gigantic' FCC/AOS).

ive bought from them before...theyre great.

That stonei 'The Best' is a great clone. I believe that was RJ Rand's pick of the litter and is luckily still around. Mine is a selfing of that clone and quite good.

As for rothschildianum 'Bion'...I will check WildCatt when I get home and see if it gives any clues.

I have a Lady Isabel that is a divion of a good one...if you could wait a year you are more than welcome to a free piece of it. Not to brag(ok maybe a little), but when the person I got my division from had it in a Mid America, a well known grower from Australia held his outstreached hand up to a flower and told him that no one back home would ever believe him about the size of it. At least that's how the story goes...I've yet to see it in bloom. It was one of RJ Rand's crossings from the 1980s originally(as are most of my hand me down divisions). When it finally blooms again I will post it.

Jon

Thanks All!
Jon, I'd appreciate the look up on 'Bion' - I see it as awarded a lot - in Screaming Eagle, stoneii, roth, etc...

Sounds as though you have a nice one - I will keep it in mind..., do post please when it blooms!

Bion is John Hanes, Hanes Orchids or Hanes Orchids of Distinction

Bion is John Hanes, Hanes Orchids or Hanes Orchids of Distinction

Thanks Lien!

Hello Heather, I have a Lady blooming now I believe it is a Roth x Stonie cross. I bought it at A & P Orchids awhile back and it's just coming into bloom. They really have some nice plants.If you ever call there try to speak with Nick Ray

Thanks Ray, yes, I bought my first Phrag from Nick and always comment on how it is doing whenever I see him. It is in spike now and I think soon to put up another on the second growth. They have some nice plants.

Heather,

Antec Labs have the best Lady Isabels in the world. They are a little pricy for their unbloomed plants. But if nothing else check out their website and look at Lady Isabel 'Debbie' AM/AOS and Lady Isabel 'George' FCC/AOS. I think the 'George' clone is the best around now!

Why indeed, I do have several very large multiflorals from Ratcliffe. Through a circuitous route unknown even to me, actually... I didn't measure the leaf span, and never trust a man to estimate size... But they are about a cubit and a half.

So, here is a picture of two Isabel Booth (roth 'Mt. Milais' x stonei 'Magnificent'). 'Mt. Milais' is an excellent roth, but not known to grow fast...
http://littlefrogfarm.com/images/Lady_isabel_plant.jpg

And I have three or four Bel Royales that are this size. The 'tiny' multifloral in the picture is St. Swithin (I have two). The really 'tiny' plants are cycnoches (they are in 3.5" pots).
http://littlefrogfarm.com/images/BelRoyale_plant.jpg

Thanks! Wow, reading back, y'all are so gosh darn helpful! :love:
Rob, those are beautiful plants! Thank you for looking and posting.

However, I think I have decided to go with Orchidaceae's only because they have a lovely Mt. Toro also, and I recently had an excellent experience with them. Here's a link if anyone wishes to see photos.

http://www.orchidaceae.com/plants.cfm?section=5&type=paphiopedilum

Thanks! Wow, reading back, y'all are so gosh darn helpful! :love:
Rob, those are beautiful plants! Thank you for looking and posting.

However, I think I have decided to go with Orchidaceae's only because they have a lovely Mt. Toro also, and I recently had an excellent experience with them. Here's a link if anyone wishes to see photos.

http://www.orchidaceae.com/plants.cfm?section=5&type=paphiopedilum

Athough I don't know that 18-20" ls is really blooming size... Not a bad price, I guess. Without seeing that I probably wouldn't have charged enough! *grin*

Athough I don't know that 18-20" ls is really blooming size... Not a bad price, I guess. Without seeing that I probably wouldn't have charged enough! *grin*

No, me neither - I have to say though, the smaller size helped my decision. I have five new plants coming and really no idea where they are going to live! It's all the fault of those rules of yours! :poke:

Hopefully, someone else here will be tempted by your plants Rob, they are lovely.

Heather, also don't forget you are getting plants from me too! Hope you have room for them! :poke:

Heather, also don't forget you are getting plants from me too! Hope you have room for them! :poke:

I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, but yes, I know! I have the second shelving unit for overflow, you know!

Athough I don't know that 18-20" ls is really blooming size... Not a bad price, I guess. Without seeing that I probably wouldn't have charged enough! *grin*

No, me neither - I have to say though, the smaller size helped my decision. I have five new plants coming and really no idea where they are going to live! It's all the fault of those rules of yours! :poke:

Hopefully, someone else here will be tempted by your plants Rob, they are lovely.

Oh, I'd just as soon see these bloom out as sell them. The Lady Isabel, at least. Since they are so big already, it isn't a big deal to keep them around a little longer. Bel Royale is not my favorite cross, I could probably part with them. Maybe I'll put them on the website...

Okay. Since you all are discussing Lady Isabel. What do you think is a better cross - roth x stonei or a Lady Isabel X Lady Isabel.
I received a flask from Antec on a hobby flask special and it was Lady Isabel X Lady Isabel. My first thought was.....these plants are going to be huge! All the research I've done have shown pictures of roth X stonei and I have yet to see one of Lady Isabel X Lady Isabel.

Just wondering what your thoughts are.

Okay. Since you all are discussing Lady Isabel. What do you think is a better cross - roth x stonei or a Lady Isabel X Lady Isabel.
I received a flask from Antec on a hobby flask special and it was Lady Isabel X Lady Isabel. My first thought was.....these plants are going to be huge! All the research I've done have shown pictures of roth X stonei and I have yet to see one of Lady Isabel X Lady Isabel.

Just wondering what your thoughts are.

Well, it will still be Lady Isabel. And chances are good it will look like roth x stonei. Primary hybrids (between two species) are actually fairly uniform in the results. A cross between two hybrids gives you more diverse results. In this case, I would expect some of your progeny will take after stonei a bit more, some after roth a bit more, as the genes segregate.

Doing this (crossing two of the same hybrid together, or selfing a hybrid), is a classic breeder's trick. The goal is to get lots of seedlings. Each of those seedlings will have a different assortment of genes from the parent, obviously. What we are trying to do is find the assortment of genes that has all of the positive features we are looking for, but leaves out some of the negative features we don't want.

So, for example, let us say we have a (hypothetical) cattleya with a bright purple lip, the only one we have ever seen for this species. But, the form sucks. What do we do? We cross our nice purple lipped clone to the best formed clone that we can find. Out of all of the (hopefully many hundred) seedlings that result, pick the one that has a purple lip and the best form. Cross that one back to the really nice clone. Keep going until we are satisfied with the results. Basically we are separating the gene that imparts the purple lip from all of the other genes.

Okay. Since you all are discussing Lady Isabel. What do you think is a better cross - roth x stonei or a Lady Isabel X Lady Isabel.
I received a flask from Antec on a hobby flask special and it was Lady Isabel X Lady Isabel. My first thought was.....these plants are going to be huge! All the research I've done have shown pictures of roth X stonei and I have yet to see one of Lady Isabel X Lady Isabel.

Just wondering what your thoughts are.

If one of the Lady Isabels was made with stonei var latifolium, then it would be a hybrid because stonei var latifolium is now recognized as a separate species called platyphyllum. I used to have a Sander's Pride made with stonei var latifolium and now that hybrid is called Fumiyasa Sugiyama and not Sander's Pride any longer. Talk about confusion! :roll: Wait til roebellinii is also separated from phil, then all the St Swithins, Michael Koopowitzes and Lebaudyanums made with roebs will all have to be renamed.