I noticed Sgratix had a number of paphs in semi-hydro on her (?) Web site (we also share the same taste in paphs :) How have you, others, found s/h for paphs. I thought I heard it was rather hit or miss?

personally i have never got technical with my paphs just a good potting mix and never had a problem.

From what I have gathered in all the reading I have done on it, is to repot the plants when they are activeley growing. I tend to repot whenever I feel like it, and I don't worry about the plants too much. I have just moved 2 paph hybrids over to S/H just as an experiment for fun. However I am using Hydroton pellets instead of the reccommended Primeagra ones. I would try it in small doses if I had more resources to do so. I currently however am loving my CHC mix.
Tadd

I'm trying a couple of Phrags in it. The Jury is still out. If you want to read more about s/h, try this website.

http://www.firstrays.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi

For pics and some good explanations try:

http://www.firstrays.com/semi-hydro.htm

Thanks Paphreek, I've been to Ray's site before, and have been doing semi-hydro on several plants for a year now. Was more curious about anyone's specific experience with paphs.

Hi John,

I've had various success in S/H with my paphs. The ones I transferred to Prime Agra are doing very well. I have 3 paph concolors in it and they seem to love it. I have one Lynleigh Koopowitz in the LECA and it seems to be doing well, putting up the third growth with very large leaves. I also have a Paph Honey in LECA and this year the growth is almost double the size of the old growth. And...oh, yeah....a paph Lucille Booth X primulinum in LECA, it is putting on a second growth for this year.
I saved a paph emersonii that had lost almost all its roots by putting it into diatomite. It now has 3 or 4 nice big roots growing in the container, some almost growing directly into the water reservoir.
I've recently transplanted a few complex paph seedlings, hangianum hybrids and a couple smaller hangianum seedlings into diatomite S/H to see how they do.
I also have a paph Ho Chi Minh in S/H using diatomite and it has done well aslo...nice roots and new leaves that are bigger than previous.
And......mmm...a phrag besseae. I got it as a bare root plant from Equagenera in May. It is putting on two nice new growths.

I did have a few pahs that did not like the LECA. The new roots would come out but aborted when they hit the dry layer at the top. I've heard some growers place sphag moss on the top to help keep the moisture level on top higher.

I would love to use Prime Agra but the only source I knew of was from First Rays and it cost as much to ship it as it did to buy it.
Diatomite seems to be my best bet currently as it stays moist all the way to the top.
I'm going to use my buckets of LECA for the rest of my phals that just love it. They fill the containers with roots and the leaves are bigger.

I like using the S/H method as I haven't been able to over water and I don't have to worry about repotting.

Oh, yah. I grow under fluorescent and HPS lights in the basement and windowsill culture upstairs. 40 - 60 % humidity and 62 - 78 F.

Good luck!

I would echo the thumbs up. All of my paphs and phrags (and everything else) is in S/H, and about to be LECA only. I am pulling out the last of my plants in S/H in diatomite and repotting. Quite sad actually, I had very high hope for it but it just doesn't work for my conditions (home, lights, watering 1 or 2 times a week)

As for the LECA, I usually buy from Crop King in Ohio, although I have gone through 5 large boxes from First Rays. Not much difference, other than, perhaps, some consistancy.

So, far, so good. Haven't lost a paph, yet, although I didi have a delenatii throw up 4 flowers on multiple growths, then died back to a single tiny new growth. It is back up to two growths and doing better. Usually, plants sink new roots down into or near the water level and grow nicely. Phrags, OTOH, grow like weeds in it. I need to start dividing my Phrag collection because they are consuming so much volume under my lights (not just pot footprint, but huge bushy growths).

Good luck, though I would suggest a few test beds before making a total switch over. I bought some compots 2-3 years ago, and split plants between CHC, LECA and diatomite as a test. At least it would give you an objective test of conditions to mix...

Jerry (in DC)

Thanks Jerry. So what was the result of your test?

I too have thumbs up for S/H using the expanded clay pellets (leca). I buy mine from a hydrophonic store. I beleive it is called hydro corals or somthing similar to that. I have my complet collection of over 500 orchids in it, with the exception of the potted vandas that are growing in clay pots with 2 parts leca and 1 part medium CHC. The vast majority iof the collection are paphs. I started testing it maybe 2 years ago. In Nov. of 04 and Dec of 04 I converted my complete collection over to it. I do beleive there are a few rules to be a sucess using this method.

Keep the old roots in the top 1/4 to 1/3 of the pot. Max. depth maybe half way down. I also water my orchids every day when I first convert them. Then after a couple of months every 2 days and then after another couple of months every 3 days. I now can see roots on many of the paphs growing right into the water at the bottom. It may not be for every one, but it is for me. I also water from the top. The reason I say that is the Misco self watering pots from Wal Marts has the spout on the side. I water from the top in order to remoisten the leca.

Good Luck

I have had no problems with my paphs or phrags either. The phrags love it and are blooming. I also water some of my plants everyday with no side effects at all. I have never killed a plant in s/h, but I have killed a few in more traditional potting media.

What's the working definition of S/H?

My phrags are almost allways in some standing water, but they are potted in all kinds of media.

I rarely have any paphs in a position for long term emersion of roots in water, but ocasionally I do find some roots growing down into drip trays below the pots were there could be standing water.

Intersting. I've had two recent failures in semi-hydro. One epi and one miltoniopsis.

Well, not particularly scientific. I used 6 compots: Phal Violacea, Bellina, Laelia Purpurata, Purpurata Carnea, BLC Momilani Rainbow 'Gypsy', and Paph. Delenatii.

In my conditions, the CHC stayed too wet. Lost several plants: one of the phals, a couple of Laelias, etc. When i pulled them after a year, most of the roots were dead. I reclaimed many by sphag n bagging them, but sort of a lost cause.

BTW, I found that starting other seeds in the coir, and growing Citrus plants, Gardinias, and Hibiscus (didn't check spelling on the latter two...) grew great in a CHC/coir mix. Started seedlings & stems, and both went off. So, I used the media, not just where I expected.

I thought the Diatomite was the coolest stuff, and would be the answer to my chronic underwatering problems. Well, the stuff stays way too wet in my house in S/H conditions. Again rotted roots, thick coats of algae, and a nifty top dressing of moss. And, the airflow seemed severely limited.

So, the LECA turned out to be my workhorse. I am in process of migrating the last of my diatomite plants over, and will finish this summer. All of my test subjects grew great. As a subset, I tried different fertilizers in the LECA plants, also, and settled on Nutricote (not osmocote, which burned everything it touched.) The MSU liquid did well, and was probably equal or, perhaps, better than the Nutricote, but the ease of application won out. Several of the 2 year out plants have bloomed, albeit small, and sometimes irregularly. Most of the 3 year outs have bloomed. It almost seems like fire and forget. Pot 'em up, fertilize twice a year, water weekly, and voila, lots of flowers. Downsides are few, a bit more algae than I would like... <shrug> but that is about it...

The interesting thing is I haven't found a plant that doesn't like S/H with the LECA. I have grown coffee plants, citrus, hibiscus, passion vines, ferns, etc. Everything just grows...

Hope this helps,

Jery

Jerry, that's exactly what happened to me with leca, massive algae and massive rotted roots after one year, both the epi and the milt. Both grew well for a while, then bam, dead roots.

I admit to not being a S/H fan. The only plants I ever had in it were put there by a previous owner. Dividing the plants and comparing them with one plant in the S/H and the division in a good Coconut Husk chip has only reinforced me not being a fan. The S/H pots get a slimy growth of green algae in the bottom which seems to spread thru the pot and eventually kill the plant - the other division goes on its merry way and s grows and blooms well. The fertilizer salt buildup in the bottom of S/H pots is also damaging to the plants - It still builds up even with flushing.
Salt deposits in the world are made up by places where standing water evaporates. I am sorry but I just dont understand the principle of this
"Gimick" and although admittedly the plant does grow well for a short period of time - I have had a lot of problems with plants people have sold me over the long run.

I know I have posted this before........water steeped in barley grass/straw for 24 hours will eliminate algae. It is used in the pond hobby and I have used it in mt pots also with great success.

Barley grass steeped in Pond water? Very interesting - where do you get the barley grass and how much do you steep to make how much algacide? Algae grows pretty quick during the months it does not get below 90 down here.

You can get it at a feed store or some pond supply stores. For the pond, you put it in a plastic container that is designed for this purpose or make your own container like I did and put holes in it. Put it near the water pump and it will work all year. I replace it once a month, maybe a good sized handful, but it will depend on the size of the pond. For orchids I just fill up a 5 gallon bucket with RO and fill it up with barley grass. I try to put this in the sun in the warmer months. Strain the water to use for watering your orchids. I do this a couple times a month.

Barley & Water & Hops = Beer! I see drink more beer and you will not see the alga build-up! Good point! :Party:

I have moved my collection 225+- paphs and phrags to semi-hydro, Prime Agra, and almost with out fail they all are loving it, I have moved them when I had time, just after blooming, while in bloom and in spike, with no discernable problems.

I have had a couple that went into revolt, an Iantha Stage that freaked, but I have 2 suks that love it, 2 roths that are trying to make up their minds.

The big plus for me is watering time, and also the number of multi growth plants that I have now is much bigger, once they get settled and start to grow its not uncommon for them to put out multi growths instead of just one new growth.

I fert. with a very very weark solution of MSU.

Good luck, I am a semi-hydro fan!!

Barley & Water & Hops = Beer! I see drink more beer and you will not see the alga build-up! Good point! :Party:

this of course is a benefit :Shh:

I admit to not being a S/H fan. The only plants I ever had in it were put there by a previous owner. Dividing the plants and comparing them with one plant in the S/H and the division in a good Coconut Husk chip has only reinforced me not being a fan. The S/H pots get a slimy growth of green algae in the bottom which seems to spread thru the pot and eventually kill the plant - the other division goes on its merry way and s grows and blooms well. The fertilizer salt buildup in the bottom of S/H pots is also damaging to the plants - It still builds up even with flushing.
Salt deposits in the world are made up by places where standing water evaporates. I am sorry but I just dont understand the principle of this
"Gimick" and although admittedly the plant does grow well for a short period of time - I have had a lot of problems with plants people have sold me over the long run.

I would disagree with the ‘Gimick’ (sic) line. I have over a thousand plants in it, with most being 3-5 years old, some as old as 7, though they were grown in S/H by others before I got them. The older ones usually have the best roots I have ever seen, and flower consistently. To paraphrase someone on another board: How did my orchids survive before S/H? Well, to be honest they didn’t. I tried over 10 years, but could never get plants to consistently grow, much less flower. I would say that it is totally dependent on growing conditions. I don’t have a green house, nor time to repot every 6 months. I typically overpot by 2-3 years of estimated growth, and don’t bother to worry until the plant can’t stand upright or is invading a nearby pot. As I use translucent containers, I can post pic after pic showing fat, green, happy roots.

I don’t see the salt build up, either. Perhaps, I don’t fertilize as heavily as you; but the flushing tends to leach whatever buildup happens, both on top of the LECA and in the bottom. I am careful to check the bottom sludge on repotting to see what the conditions were like. I wonder if your water conditions might tend to exacerbate the problem.

Given that I grow in my house, under lights and am a chronic underwaterer, it works for me. If you were to dote, overwater, and coddle each and every plant (which I wish I could), something else may work better. I think having/not having a greenhouse and/or living in a more tropical location are two decision points. Better environmental conditions would lead to different growing habits. As a point of reference, look at Ed M’s photos around the forums. Great grower; I can only drool in vain at his plants. Lots of other folks growing beautiful plants, too.

That said, I would suggest doing your own controlled tests. Try multiple plants in multiple medias and try to vary conditions as much as you can. I did try several tests, but the LECA S/H kept beating my media de jour. I really, really, really wanted diatomite to be the ultimate answer <shrug>. CHC strikes me as a really great media in the right conditions. But, one media is not the ultimate answer, nor is a single growing style, e.g. my stans grow in baskets of LECA, but can’t be in S/H and flower. IMHO, I do think that S/H is a revolutionary way to grow plants*, especially orchids. But, trying different methods will lead to better info, and hopefully, incremental improvements in planting methods.

John in DC:
The algae issue is one that I don’t have an answer for. I get some algae growth along the container walls, but certainly doesn’t migrate into the LECA. It did in the Diatomite; those pots are a slimy mess. I would hazard a guess, and quite a hazard it is coming from me , that your containers are too wet or well fertilized. I might try less fertilizer and/or letting the reservoir nearly empty before flushing and refilling. If you water a lot, some folks have success in growing in LECA in clay pots with no standing water. Another issue may be the regularity of the LECA. Mine are larger & very irregular, leaving large areas for air to flow. If it is packed tightly, the airflow might be reduced. YMMV.

As a point of reference, I water every day in the summer when the plants are outdoors, but inside, once every week to 1.5 weeks. On a beautiful, warm Virginia summer day, my plants will loose 1/3rd to ½ the water in the bottom of the container. During the winter, I have gone for 3 weeks w/o watering (very slow evaporation, and a long vacation). I live out in Northern Virginia, Chantilly area, so if you ever out, let me know and you can stop by and see my conditions.

Jerry

* BTW, try citrus or coffee plants in S/H. They will grow like weeds. Much faster than most dirt grown plants. I took a coffee plant out of a container last year, and the roots had completely filled the container, to the point where no LECA fell off. Opening up the root ball, it was solid all the way through. Wish I had taken pics…

To Lost Boy,
Thanks for all the info. Spent some time in Quantico years ago but not likely to get back up that way anytime in the near future but thank you so much for your invitation to visit. I always learn so much when I do visit another grower. Do you have any cymbidiums in the S/H? I have lot of my plants in Osmunda but like the Coconut chips better. Stanhopias do well for me - I line wire baskets with Osmunda fiber then fill the lined area with CHC. One plant has 6 spikes this year and its only 3 years old.
Dendrobiums like the same treatment as do Cattleyas. Fiber pots filled with coconut chips are also doing well but its a new thing with me so I cant swear by it. Evaporation from the fiber pots I have my cymbidiums in keep the root ball cooler due to the evaporation surface and help the cymbidiums spike. I have an outdoor growing area with a misting system which mists everything three times a day for two minutes to drop temperatures & I dont have to worry about watering my vandas.
Glad you are having good luck with S/H - I wonder why LECA is differant than Aliflor?

Lots of blue green algae growth can be a good indication that you have allot more nitrogen in your system than you need.

To Rick L.
Does too much Nitrogen really have anything to do with it? I notice glass on the greenhouse will grow algae where it is constantly wet - no nitrogen at all. Have seen algae inside the Fuel Tanks of Jet aircraft - when there is water presant. Could it be that constant water not nitrogen is the culprit?
Sure nitrogen will make it grow even faster. Algae is a plant and will grow where there is water - It does not have roots and does not grow when media dries out a little.

I'll bite

Algae, like all other growing things, needs food. For a plant (Algae is a plant) that means Nitrogen and Carbon ( or one of the derivatives) for the main part and generally a light source to help convert it. Air, the stuff we breath, comprises a very large percentage of Nitrogen. It's insidious

Likewise, Water contains dissolved Air. Unless it's been very well distilled it also has dissolved mineral salts, bacteria and spores in it.

Algae has been around for like Millions of years - It knows how to live - it doesn't care where and it certainly doesn't pay any attention to our likes and dislikes. The inside of a fuel tank you say - Wow that's very interesting.

But then again there's Anaerobic bacteria growing at the bottom of the Marianas trench.

Live with it, control it and be aware of it.:poke:

Feelin' pokey this evening

Cheers all
Stephan


To Rick L.
Does too much Nitrogen really have anything to do with it? I notice glass on the greenhouse will grow algae where it is constantly wet - no nitrogen at all. Have seen algae inside the Fuel Tanks of Jet aircraft - when there is water presant. Could it be that constant water not nitrogen is the culprit?
Sure nitrogen will make it grow even faster. Algae is a plant and will grow where there is water - It does not have roots and does not grow when media dries out a little.

In aquatic systems (ponds, creeks) macro algaes are typically outcompeted by macrophytic plants. When nitrogen and phosphorus is in excess (like downstream of farm or waste treatment plant opperations) algaes often take off, and overrun the assimilative capacity of the macrophytes. Blue green slime algaes (which are now considered photosynthetic bacteria) are especially prevalent in high nitrogen/phosphorus conditions of sewage type effluents, and can do ok in low light conditions.

If you see green there has to be bio available nitrogen (even on greenhouse glass). The air we breath is 2/3 N (though not bioavailable without nitrogen fixing bacteria). You can bet that when water and air co mingle you will get nitrogen in some form.

I have had excellent success with semi-hydro. However, you have to mind a few basic rules. The first one is, when possible, use solo cups. The second one is, don't fill your medium up to the top because this will dry it out via capillary action if you have good airflow. The third is, paphs are typically found in calcium or some other type of gneiss rock, or not at all, keep this in mind when selecting your medium because using diatomite is not always the solution.