So what's the deal with bone meal, blood meal and lime. Do folks use them on paphs and/or phrags, and if so, how?

I do not use bone meal and blood meal and I also wonder if any growers do!

No, I haven't used that either. I' ve been trying the MSU for a little over one month. Too soon to get results, I would imagine. I saw an interesting seaweed fertilizer at my hardware store yesterday, and was wondering whether anyone was using that.

The old RJ Rands calalogs have a recipe for fertilizer mix that utilizes these components. My mentor swears his plants never grew as well as they did when he used this recipe in conjunction with the walnut based potting mix. I will get a photo of the recipe and post it. In the meantime, here's a couple pics of a catalog I do have.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/jonbar1/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/jonbar1/zzxzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.jpg

Jon

I recall seeing someone in the UK who posted about good results with it on another forum.
Other than that, nope, not tried it nor heard much about it .

Does this bone. blood meal have calcium? That might be similar to putting crushed oyster shell on top?

I suspect the bone meal is for calcium and bone meal for Nitrogen?

Avoid bone meal...Its so purified that its nearly all nitrogen, no calcium or other ingredients that might make it useful. (Some people say to avoid it for mad cow reasons, but I'm not sure that is a major issue now....) MSU fertilizer has the right balance of ingredients, including calcium. If adding a supplement, stick to oyster shell or dolomite...(anyone tried marble chip mulch?) if you get hydrated lime you could really shock your plants roots system. Take care, Eric

So far I am sticking w/ the latest choice of MSU, and I top dressed w/ oyster shell on 4/30/05 - not sure how often to do that on a regular basis, though.

I'm trying the MSU. It is too soon to tell for me, as I have been using it for less than one month. . I was just wondering about Epson Salt, as that was mentioned in other threads. It is gettng harder & harder to find Epson Salt lately. The major supermarkets (even in Maine) are discontinuing it!!! I think it would be good to have some on hand, but it is getting harder & harder to find.

I actually just went hunting for some Epsom salts for my tomatoes(plants that is). It is in a new funky package, and There wasn't much choice in size. I might use it eventually since I really have barely any fert in my watering. The nitrogen is good for color? help me out here...

I use bone meal as a source of natural Calcium and Phosphorous for my breeding parrots.

I have been using it in my potting mixes for my orchids, and all other plants (my newly planted palm seedlings really get a boost from it). Bone meal is said to contain about 25 to 39 % available phosphate (not as high a super phosphates, but is organic and slow release) and about 3% nitrogen. Together with the bone meal I use dolomitic lime in the potting mix, and also sprinkle some of it on top of the mix in the pot every 3 months. The dolomitic lime contains Calcium and Magnesium, and improves the alkalinity of the potting mix as it breaks down over time.

My plants are foliar fed with 'Seagro', an organic fish emulsion and alternated with a commercial guano mix, made from the guano of sea birds and penguins (fish eaters) to both of these products I add 2 tablespoons of Epson salts, I use to add a bit of household ammonia, but did not see a measurable difference in my plants and this was stopped.

The only drawback with these fertilizers is the fact that the Seagro has a very strong fish smell and the guano...well you can just imagine. I have to feed in the morning before going out; usually by the time I return the smell is gone and the plants are happy.

I also water my orchids from one of the Koi ponds every sixth or seventh watering.

Gideon you have any room for people to come live there? Sounds like a great setup you have going on there! I water from my sink pond.... :poke: Yes I am once again jealous! Soon as I own a house I will be able to say neat things like that maybe... :clap:

I use the MSU fertilizer for well water, because a water test indicated that this was the best fertilizer based on the water test. I do add crushed oyster shells on paphs that are on the "Calcilous list". Remember that Calcium is antagonistic to the plants uptake of Nitrogen and excess Calcium may actually damage plants that are not in the Calcilous Group. Organic sources of nitrogen, urea, guano, Blood Meal, Manure, and fish emulsion are only available to the plant after breakdown by microbes which takes time so that they are often washed away by watering of pot plants before the Nitrogen becomes available to the plant. So why use it at all?

for paphs &phrags -I use twice yearly once on beginning of winter which is usually the growing time for most paphs then again after repotting .
the other we call hoof &horn which is a dried and crushed up cow horns and feet -again same as dry blood twice a year .these are all I use .
BUT PLEASE DONT USE LIME ON YOUR PHRAGS
some paphs like it others dont . Antec has a great paph lime article read it it tells you which like and which dont .
Billie

Organic sources of nitrogen, urea, guano, Blood Meal, Manure, and fish emulsion are only available to the plant after breakdown by microbes which takes time so that they are often washed away by watering of pot plants before the Nitrogen becomes available to the plant. So why use it at all?

That is why I mentioned that I foliar feed. MSU is not available in South Africa, and the success I have had using this convinces me that I must be doing something right. What works for one person is not always the answer for the next.

I use Dolomitic Lime to counteract the effects of natural breakdown of the bark mix, it is used on all my orchids not just paphs. By adding Lime or Oyster shell grit it balances the PH and more nutrients are available to the plant as well as supplying Calcium and Magnesium. Dolomitic lime actually contains less calcium than Oyster shell grit.

Any sort of marine grit is controlled in South Africa due to the illegal smuggling of Abalone, getting hold of it is difficult, so lime is a viable option for us.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the 'Calcilous Group'?

Gideon you have any room for people to come live there? Sounds like a great setup you have going on there! I water from my sink pond.... :poke: Yes I am once again jealous! Soon as I own a house I will be able to say neat things like that maybe... :clap:

I could always use someone as experienced as you are at repotting orchids...volunteers are hard to find :lol:

SomeOne might say me where a I can find this Fertilizer, bone meal, blood meal, lime. What is your name or sent in private a message this fertilizer, cause here everybody use peters, better grow however !! I thing this fertilizers has salt and don´t have calcium !!! So I realy thanks if someone help me !!!

Calcious plants are plants whose origins are lime stone cliffs. Some of the Paphs fit into this group because they grow on such cliffs in SE Asia or grow in the runoff from limestone and have a requirement for a lot of calcium in their diet. Non calcious paphs actually respond badly to too much calcium.

I understand perfectly about adapting the fertilizer at hand. I did it for years. There is really no such thing at MSU fertilizer - Micigan State University did some valuable research into fertilizer for orchids and the fertilizer they used was only a commercially available fertilizer which fitted their requirements. There are a lot of ways to provide the nutrient requirements of orchids (both Macro and Micro Nutrients) but the MSU study did a lot to help us understand the requirements. It just happoned that the company that produced the fertilizer for the study is owned by an alumni with a doctorate in botnany from Micigan State and is an authority about fertilizing Potted plants of all kinds.

Some of our commercial vendors have been good enought to put the MSU article, a repeat of the Plant nutrition requirements published by the Phaleonopsis Aliance and a list of paphs requiring high calcium. I will not post the locations but will provide anyone who would like to look at these very useful bits of information a website site here the information can be found . If interested E-Mail me at cymbidiuman@msn.com.

Well finally got the page uploaded from a 1981 Rands catalog that I mentioned earlier in this thread. Maybe Steve can work his magic and make this one more viewable as well.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a218/jonbar2/DSC05649.jpg

Jon

It's a bit late in the piece - but - I'm not quite sure what constitutes bonemeal and blood meal in the States. Here in Oz we have a product called Blood and Bone which I suspect is very similar. Part of my potting "mix", depnding on the volume is a handful or two of blood and bone. Other growers here and some doco that I've read suggest it aids in the transition from one pot to another. It's good fertiliser but you don't want to overpower the plant.

After that I don't add any more.

As for Lime/calcium - I'm still getting my head around the varied dietary requirements of all the sub families

Cheers
Stephan