A person has acaules growing on their property in Maine. A neighbor cut down a sheltering tree on adjacent property and the clump will die, so they're selling a clump along with soil. Is this a legal or desireable action?

If it's legal, I'm considering getting them because they're adapted to Maine winters and should do wonderful here in MS plus they come with the native fungus.

I'm not sure of the legality - I think she has to have the neighbors permission to move them. Is it desireable? I don't think so. Also, if this is the woman on GardenWeb who posted about a week ago, I don't get the impression she knows what she is doing. She also was told not to sell/move them until fall.

Frankly, I think you'll be disappointed in the end, and I'm not so sure the plants would survive. Maybe I'm way off base here, but if it were me, I'd rather support a reputable vendor and not the possible poaching of Cyp. acaule. JMHO of course! :)

Perhaps someone who knows more for certain will weigh in here.

You misunderstand, the woman who owns the land they're on is who's selling. The neighbor is the one who cut down the tree that shaded the habitat so they've got to be moved regardless or they'll die. I realize it's a questionable purchase for health and life expectancy but I'm concerned about legality.

You misunderstand, the woman who owns the land they're on is who's selling. The neighbor is the one who cut down the tree that shaded the habitat so they've got to be moved regardless or they'll die. I realize it's a questionable purchase for health and life expectancy but I'm concerned about legality.

Oh I see, sorry about that. Not sure about legality, again, hopefully Ron Burch can weigh in - maybe you should send him a PM?

I would also worry about the temps down in MS - I didn't think Cyp. acaule grew that far south.

After reading another few posts by the seller of that acaule that Heather pointed me to, I'm also convinced she has no clue what she's doing and I won't be party to it.

:D Good choice, Ernie!

I'm going to link in a discussion at another forum that this seller on ebay had a week or so ago. Just in case anyone else might be tempted by purchasing her Cyps on Ebay.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/orchidsgal/msg061950546521.html?18

I found it interesting that although she was given much advice and suggestions to better handle the situation and conserve her slipper population, she chose to go ahead and split the clumps and offer them on Ebay.

Here's the link to the auction - which is about to end.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4386247203

I'm sort of curious what others think about this sort of behavior...

I think that they are legally protected here in Maine. I don't know for sure. Best thing she could have done, if they were on her own property, would be to move them to another compatible spot and hope for the best. I don't think that selling them on ebay was a good idea. In any event, how could she ship those plants without damage when she is also shipping 15+ lbs of soil? How would she manage to pack something like that without doing mortal damage to the plants?

Ebay is pretty good at picking up things like that if they think it is illegal. I'm surprised that they did not pick it up.

As a kid, before they were endangered on LI, New York, I would transport them from the woods into a little shaded garden. They lived and grew and reproduced. It was very interesting about the woods where I found them and to where I transplanted them, as there was more oak and sassafrass, and not much of the pine you find where they tend to grow today.

Things like this really break my heart. I work with an "upwardly moblie" young couple who just bought a new house. They cut down their woods and plowed down their slippers. So sad. They don't have a clue!!!.

We are the biggest destroyers of plants in general! Look at all of the housing development here in the U.S. All of the clear cutting for farm and lumber in the world! It is horrible.

I checked online for both Maine and Mississippi to see if they were on the endangered lists and they weren't. I did that before I even asked here so I doubt what she's doing is illegal.

That lady said she was going to dig up 18 inches of soil around the acaules too and only charge $15 for shipping which was interesting.

If I owned the land they were on, I would sure as heck move them to another location that already supported some instead of her "little garden" or selling on eBay. What's sad is they were purchased for $25 and will be moved to somewhere in the world and all we can hope is the new owner knows how to keep them alive.

I think I could have made a really good effort to keep them alive but all things considered, I would rather raise a few dealer ones before attempting a natural like that.

Tadd, you are so right.

I cringe everytime I see people who buy large acre lots out in the country and bulldoze every living tree and plant on the property and what do they plant instead? Nothing but ugly looking grass! Ugh!

Despite how hard it is to culture, acule is the most common of the eastern US slippers, and I believe its not on any state list, and not on the fed list. It requires very acid soils, so that's something to check when you transport Ernie.

I think there might be some good culture info from Vermont Ladyslippers, If Ron doesn't chime in soon.

My favorites got dumped with a new computor, so I don't have the website handy.

As far as Endangered species protection goes... In this country its almost a farce because most land is privately owned. If no state or federal resources (including $) are getting impacted you can bulldoze endangered plants at will on your own property. The protection of endangered animal species on private property is state dependent and only managed cooperatively. Collection and transport across state lines may be controled with CITES. And in a few cases there are redundant laws like the Migratory Bird Act, which helps out bald eagles now that they have been delisted.

That's really a shame imho...I own property and I understand ownership rights but when there's an endangered species of anything on it that needs to be moved or removed, I would want some agency available to me to do it for me in lieu of killing it. Protection of the species is that important to me and I would throw tax dollars or contributions at it.

On the growing note for native Cyps...my 1/2 acre is reclaimed swampland which is fairly predominant in central and south MS so there wouldn't be any acidity issues. Cold in winter I believe is fairly relative since I'm on the edge of the plains and I believe below 32, which I get for 3 months of the year, is the only pertinent aspect. My main issue would be too much moisture in winter so each would have to be mounded. In summer, the issue should be keeping the ground temps for the roots cool enough which I think proper shade and a dripper/mister would do.

Just some thoughts, but I won't even attempt it until I've had greater experience with Cyps and know I can keep them alive.

If that acaule clump is going to be transplanted into a neighbor's yard, with the same kind of soil, it has an excellent chance of survival if cared for properly, even being transplanted at this type of year. What make acaule "difficult" is its very specific requirements for sandy, low nutrient-high acid soil. When these conditions can be provided, acaule is in fact very easy. The best hint as to whether a grower can succeed with acaule is its existence in the area....if it is already there, the conditions are right. I have grown salvaged acaule's from hundreds of miles away, and they thrived as though nothing had happened. If they are just being moved a few yards, in the same environment, success is as close to guaranteed as is reasonably possible....as for the legal issues, that is way outside my range of expertise. Take care, Eric

If they are just being moved a few yards, in the same environment, success is as close to guaranteed as is reasonably possible....as for the legal issues, that is way outside my range of expertise. Take care, Eric

No, she sold them on eBay for 25 bucks....

That person actually has more than one clump and has put another up on ebay. Anything for a buck I guess.

I'm almost tempted to buy them and drive down to pick them up, as she is probably less than 30 miles away from me. (Better than trying to ship them and risk damaging them.) But I will resist the temptation as, although we do have pine woods on the property, I haven't seen any Cyps growing here. So, I don't know whether they would survive and I would hate to kill them.

Transplanting acaule is very difficult since there are strong pH issues for most clones. If it is tried, it is best to locate them under white pines, a a favorite habitat, but hemlocks also make them happy. Water them with distilled or RO water to which a tablespoon per gallon of cider vinegar has been added. This will keep the pH down. No one knows why acid pH, especially that supplied by vinegar, is the best way to keep these guys going. There are certainly lots of thoughts, though! One thing to keep in mind is to not, ever, fertilize them. Even very dilute solutions tend to kill the plants very quickly. Perhaps the low pH makes the components too avaialbe for something (again a topic of lore).

In most areas moving a Cypripedium can be done if there is impending property renovation. In some states, MN for sure, you still need a permit. However, as others have mentioned in this string, Cyp acaule is not protected in most places since it is still fairly common.

Ron Burch

All the acaule's in my area grow in oak-hickory woods. The soil is sandy, pH of 3.9, and basically devoid of nutrients. In other words, acaule paradise....Take care, Eric

Part of our property is an overgrown Christmas tree farm. The trees are now way too big. The former owners may have done it to get a property tax break that we have in Maine. Neverless, there are lots of pine trees on the property. I have not walked the property for a while as it is difficult to get around. We also have a "wood lot" without the pines and a marsh that was probably a farm pond many, many, years ago when this place was a working farm.

I don't know whether any of this area would be condusive for saving the Cyps.