Up-date on Phrag. kovachii testing and various posts

This will be the last and only time I will reply or post on the various forums regarding the Phrag. kovachii problems with one particular sib cross of kovachii.

Chuck Acker and I did by some flasks of Phrag. kovachii from Peruflora who does have all of the necessary permits to engage in the cultivation of 5 plants of Phrag. kovachii, the setting of seed pods, the raising of seedlings in and out of flasks in Peru and the export of these seedlings. Manolos lab is one of the best I have seen in the world and is fairly large. Everything looks excellent. The Peruvian government would have never issued permits for me to take the seedlings out of the country had they not approved his work. The USDA signed off on our import permits and CITES. They are legal plants.

We have been very patiently growing these plants and many of the hybrids. We first brought them into the US in April of 2005. As these plants grew we were quite excited to see that one of the sib crosses of kovachii ‘Jewel’ x ‘Roseline’ grew faster than the rest. It wasn’t until this past fall and winter that Chuck and I first had our doubts about this particular sib cross. The leaves didn’t look like the other kovachii sibs we have and they looked different than the adult plants leaves we had seen in Peru.

Mark Whitten at the University of Florida has been working on the DNA sequencing of all of the Phragmipedium species. We understand that he did have the opportunity at an earlier date to sequence the leaves from Manrique’s (CJM) kovachii. This was published in winter of 2005 in ORCHIDS magazine. I believe four different clones were sequenced. Based upon that knowledge we both decided to have the sib cross ‘Jewel’ x ‘Roseline’ and other kovachii sib crosses tested at his lab. Mark’s test results of our plants confirmed what we thought, that indeed the Jewel x Roseline sib was a hybrid. The others came out as kovachii. I then sent samples for testing to the University of Minnesota just to be sure and have an independent labs expertise as well. The results were the same exactly. This cost us a great deal of time and money but at least we know what is what and we also know that the other sibs are real. We have no doubt that everything else we have with kovachii as a parent is the correct hybrid cross.

I want to make it clear that when Chuck and I were in Peru we selected flasks from one shelf that had nice looking seedlings in the bottle. This same sib cross was also on other shelves but we selected the more vigorous ones. I mention this because if others had purchased the cross ‘Jewel’ x ‘Roseline’ they may indeed have the real thing. It is possible that a lab employee made this one mistake during flasking with a few of the bottles.. Perhaps the only way to be sure is to have them sequenced. People should not jump to conclusion that because of the problem Chuck and I encountered then certainly all of the flasks by Peruflora must be wrong.

Manolo will do right by us.

I have also e-mailed my customers who have e-mail and am contacting others by phone to explain the situation and offer replacement suggestions. So far everyone has been very gracious. This is all I have to say about the matter and I will now go about the wonderful business of growing my plants and helping customers.

Sincerely, Jerry Lee Fischer, Orchids Limited.

I'm glad you were able to figure this out! I'm sorry to hear you didn't get what you were expecting. What are you gonna do with this mystery cross? Bloom it out and try to ID it? Maybe market it as a mystery kovachii hybrid? It may not be the straight species, but in my mind i kinda see a few interesting possibilities OL can take with this :)

I'm glad you were able to figure this out! I'm sorry to hear you didn't get what you were expecting. What are you gonna do with this mystery cross? Bloom it out and try to ID it? Maybe market it as a mystery kovachii hybrid? It may not be the straight species, but in my mind i kinda see a few interesting possibilities OL can take with this :)

Thanks for the detailed post Jerry.
I feel very bad for Chuck. And I understand that one can not really control mistakes that originated from a supplier outside one's own facility.
The bulk of my phrag seedlings are from Chuck. This unfortunate event has not altered my view of how good and honest a person he is.


Chris
If the mixed up involves at least one kovachii parent, there are only two possibilities, since Peruflora list for 2005 only have two hybrids crosses:
Cross 759 czerwiakowianum 'Manco Inca' x kovachii 'Maximus'
Cross 760 wallisii 'Rapunzel' x kovachii 'Goliath'

I have been watching and reading the forums quietly since the revelation made by Chuck Acker that some of the plants labeled as kovachii from his Peruflora flasks are not true kovachii species. As a long time customer and now good friend of his I feel it is time to share some of my first hand knowledge of this subject from my many months of personal communications with him. This may get lengthy but I would like to point out a few things in response to certain postings.

I remember reading last summer many, many posts from someone who continued to hammer on the fact that Chuck Acker and Jerry Fischer could not sell their kovachii for two years because of an agreement that Peruflora had engaged them into. Well, good thing for that agreement and for the integrity of the two men that signed it because in a few short days that agreement expires. If it wasn't for Chuck's expertise in raising Phrags and his ability to discern that there was a problem, these misrepresented plants would be put out to market under the name of Phrag. kovachii. I commend Chuck and Jerry for abiding by the two year agreement not only because of this outcome but because it was an agreement they entered into and stuck with in spite of the flak they took because of it.

Back to Chuck's expertise in raising Phrags. It was early last summer when I first heard his statements of suspicion about one of his kovachii crosses from Peruflora. He painstakingly examined these plants for months, comparing them with the other kovachii crosses he was growing, not only from Peruflora but also from the Alfredo Manrique/Glen Decker stock. He noticed that indeed this one particular kovachii cross from Peruflora was growing very differently from the other kovachii flasks he obtained from those two legal sources. It was early October that I heard him bring up the subject of getting this suspicious cross DNA tested, which I thought was highly resourceful and most likely the best way to investigate what these plants truly were. Not only did he suspect there was a problem and come up with a solution, but he also did the legwork to find an accredited lab which was capable of running the test. He sent in the samples, paid the money and got the answers he was expecting.

Thanks to Chuck, many future buyers of these plants were spared the distress and agony that he has gone through in the deciphering of what these plants truly are. My sympathy goes out to him because I know how much effort, money, consideration, time and himself he has put into obtaining and raising these plants for us to eventually own with pride in our collections. His ethics in all aspects of this issue are truly commendable.

For those of you who have taken the time to read this I say Thank You. And from my most recent conversation with Chuck I know that he is extremely appreciative of the positive support he has received from his customers in response to publicly and honestly bringing this circumstance to light in the orchid community.

Thanks for your post Barbara. Jerry and Chuck are clearly professionals, and they have handled this situation with class. I don't think anyone can dispute the fact that they have provided their customers with outstanding plants and service for many years. I don't have kovachii or any hybrids, so I have sort of just stood aside and watched this situation with interest. I am perplexed at some things I have read regarding how this mix up occurred because really, from a cutomer's point of view what matters most is that Chuck and Jerry have been up front about it and are taking steps to fix it. I haven't seen them pointing fingers or trying to shift the blame, or making any excuses why this happened. We are human, mistakes happen, we do our best to make things right.

:iagree: Very well said, Teresa! :thumbsup:

And thanks for posting, Barbara!

The Pk saga reminds me of work. In business management consulting, mistakes are bound to happen, no matter how skilled, thorough, and well-intentioned people are. Sometimes the mistakes involve millions of $$.

It's ironic, but often, the relationship with the client is stronger for having had a problem and having resolved it with honor and respect - and usually w/ the consulting company taking a hit financially.

From everything that's happened so far, Jerry and Chuck are resolving this mix-up with honor and respect, even though they didn't cause it. Unfortunately, Chuck, esp., will take a financial loss.

It's that thing about it's not what comes into your life that matters so much as how you respond to it.

It's too bad for Chuck! Hopefully the vendor can offer him free replacements.

Paphman910