So, does petal length count much in the award process of the long petaled Phrag. species? If so, does anyone know the record? The norm?

Thanks!!

P. wallisii awards (petal length (in cm) and date):

'Joan' AM/AOS: 50.0, 5/16/1989
'Tower Grove' HCC/AOS: 66.0, 7/7/1990
'Hagdorn' HCC/AOS: 48.5, 6/22/1990
'Teresa' AM/AOS: 53.7, 4/30/1994
'Twin Sisters' HCC/AOS: 47.8, 4/30/1994
'Aileen' AM/AOS: 47.5, 5/14/1994
'Big Stone' FCC/AOS: 60.2, 3/18/1994
'Vera Cruz' HCC/AOS: 0.80, 6/17/1995 (I'm sure this is a typo in the records)
'Janeth Roman' AM/AOS: 44.5, 7/5/1997
'White River Cascade' HCC/AOS: 42.0, 4/25/1998
'Donna Harig' HCC/AOS: 62.0, 5/16/1998
'Farwest' AM/AOS: 51.2, 7/18/1998
'Edna' AM/AOS: 58.5, 5/13/2000
'Hartford' FCC/AOS: 52.5, 5/15/2000
'Hartford II' AM/AOS: 49.3, 5/15/2002
'Westfield' AM/AOS: 62.0, 5/2/2003
'Orchidland' AM/AOS: 46.1, 6/14/2003

Hmmm, well....

I have a 56cm....so...that's not bad, eh? for a first bloom, 'Tower Grove' x 'Windy Hill'?

I have to think though that of course there is more going on here than petal length for sure. Still, I'm rather happy. A week from Saturday to "stay fresh" for possible judging.

(I so know NOTHING of this aspect!)

Hmmm, well....

I have a 56cm....so...that's not bad, eh? for a first bloom, 'Tower Grove' x 'Windy Hill'?

I have to think though that of course there is more going on here than petal length for sure. Still, I'm rather happy. A week from Saturday to "stay fresh" for possible judging.

(I so know NOTHING of this aspect!)

Not a lot of people know what goes on in the judging room. Here is a breakdown of what we do. Just a general summary, the details get complicated. Different centers do it slightly differently, but the general gist is the same:

1. Research. Has the species/hybrid been awarded before? If so, we read the award descriptions and look at pictures (if we can find them). If not, have the parents been awarded? Look those up. Failing all that, we need to get some sort of idea of what is possible for this type of breeding, so that we can make an informed decision.

2. Discussion. Is the plant in front of us an improvement over what we expect to see? If it is a new hybrid, does it represent an improvement in breeding? Size is only 10 points out 100 (some say the most important 10 points...). We look at color, overall form of the flower, the form of the flower parts, substance... Arrangement of flowers on the stem, consistency between flowers... A whole bunch of stuff. We all have an idea of what the 'ideal' flower should look like, this standard changes over time and is part of the reason it takes so long to become a certified judge. You need to look at a lot of flowers to get an idea of what is possible.

3. Nomination. In order to score the plant, one of the certified judges on the team has to nominate the plant for an award (quality, cultural, botanical, whatever). Regardless of what the rest of the team thinks, we now score the plant (or vote, for non-scored awards).

4. Scoring. For most awards, we have score sheets. They have a breakdown of the possible points and a suggestion of how to distribute them. Different kinds of plants are judged on different scales. The scale for cattleya is different than that for paph. There is also a 'general' scale, for plants that don't really fit. There are always 100 points available. We never give all 100... For a quality award, an HCC is granted if the average score of the certified judges is between 75 and 79, AM if 80-89, and FCC if 90+. Cultural awards, 80+ is a CCM, 90+ is a CCE. A simplified way of thinking about it is that an average plant should score 50 points. That is probably oversimplifying...

5. Miscellaneous. The point spread cannot exceed 6 points, but each judge has the option to modify their score once. If they still can't come to an agreement (it happens), the plant is sent to another team, who repeat steps 1-3 (and possibly 4). A plant that has been seen by an AOS team cannot be re-evaluated for AOS awards on the same bloom. You need to rebloom it to try again. Sometimes, the judges can say that a plant is "not seen", if they agree that the flower is not fully open or otherwise not ready for judging. That doesn't happen that often.

You may always ask to observe a judging. The chair of the judging can accomodate your request at his/her discretion. Usually they say yes. It is best to sit with a team that is not looking at your plants. And keep your mouth shut unless you are asked for an opinion. You are encouraged to ask questions about the process, of course. This is how we recruit new judges...

Rob,

Thank you very much for taking the time to educate us about judging. I still have to call Tower Hill because, though they are listing as a NE Judging center, the only time I went, no one knew what was happening and no one knew if/where it was happening! I need to be sure the AOS info is correct before I venture out.

Also, if you don't mind me picking your brain just a bit more, how much does freshness of the blooms play into things? I mean, (say we use my wallisii as an example) if the oldest bloom is looking a bit tired, does that come into play? I assume a lot of this is just timing. I mean, I can't expect my plants to bloom specifically timed to bloom for judging, you know?

Rob,

Thank you very much for taking the time to educate us about judging. I still have to call Tower Hill because, though they are listing as a NE Judging center, the only time I went, no one knew what was happening and no one knew if/where it was happening! I need to be sure the AOS info is correct before I venture out.

Also, if you don't mind me picking your brain just a bit more, how much does freshness of the blooms play into things? I mean, (say we use my wallisii as an example) if the oldest bloom is looking a bit tired, does that come into play? I assume a lot of this is just timing. I mean, I can't expect my plants to bloom specifically timed to bloom for judging, you know?

Yes, quality of bloom would probably come into play. Unfortunately there isn't always a judging when the flowers are at their best. It is a common complaint! *grin* It isn't necessarily a veto if a flower is a little tired. A lot tired, probably. Doesn't cost anything to show it, though (except for time and gas)

Yes, quality of bloom would probably come into play. Unfortunately there isn't always a judging when the flowers are at their best. It is a common complaint! *grin* It isn't necessarily a veto if a flower is a little tired. A lot tired, probably. Doesn't cost anything to show it, though (except for time and gas)


Ok, I only have a week to go, and the wallisii petals are just finishing their elongation. 22" today.
So far, to me, they look fresh. I'm keeping my fingers crossed they are at least close to good next week, at least 2 of the three, in order to try this...for experience only, at least.

I'll call Tower Hill and firm things up tomorrow.
Frankly, I just don't want to even move the plant if it is definitely not worth it.