Hello,

Can you inform me for Cypripedien seeds about times? Which concentration in Ca(OCl)2 do you use?

Thank you for your help.

Best wishes

Jack

Hi Jack,
Average bleach times depend on species. Which species are you planning on trying?

Even without a good average, you can often obtain excellent results by watching the embryo color. When you bleach, at first you will notice the seeds get darker. After that, they will lighten slowly. The correct time (for most species) is when the embryos lighten to a creamy light tan color. Too white means the seed is dead. Too dark may mean the seed will not germinate well.

I don't use Ca(OCl)2. I use NaOCl because it is easily available, but most researchers use Calcium hypoclorite. It seems to work better, sometimes.

Best,
Ross

Hello Ross,

Thank you for your answer. It is reginae, guttatum, penserinum and acaule. How do you supervise the colour of the Embrionen?

Best wishes

Jack

Hi Jack,
Using a 0.6% NaOCl solution, the average bleaching times I've seen are

reginae: 45-60 minutes
guttatum: I haven't sown this one yet (I'll let you know this fall if no one else says)
passerinum: 70-90 minutes
acaule: 90 minutes

Good luck with the passerinum. I had nearly 100% germination, but then they refused to grow after replate. Most died.

Cyp acaule never germinates quickly for me. Sometimes it takes 5-10 months for germination, so be patient.

Ron will have second opinions. Maybe he will know some average times for Ca(OCl)2 as well :-) I can always ask a friend if not...

To watch the color, use a clear glass or plastic tube to sterilize your seeds. Look closely at the embryos during the bleach process. The color change in the seed will be obvious: The seed starts tan, then bleaches to dark brown, and then lightens again to light tan, and then eventually white. Sow at a creamy tan phase, before it goes white. Does that make sense?

Best,
Ross

Hi, Jack,

These times all sound fine - as Ross says, watch the seed, when it turns a light yellowish-brown, it is done. If it gets lighter it will be dead. For acaule, you may need to go even longer than 90 minutes. Most of the clones here take 120 - 150 minutes. As Ross noted, acaule germinates more slowly, often starting at about 2 months. I am not sure why that is, but I have found if I measure the pH of the media at germination time for acaule, it is always between 4 - 4.5. Since acaule grows in very acidic media, the seed may simply "wait" until the pH of the medium falls to where they like it.

Best,

Ron Burch

Hello,

Thanks Ron and Ross. The seed must only come now! Have you used IBA and IAA at your seed before?

Best wishes

Jack

I suppose that any proper Cyp forum should have a list of approximate bleach times and media for the germination of various species. Please feel free to contribute, since I'm lacking a lot of info. These are just my observations combined with recommendations from others. All times given are for 0.6% NaOCl, and are only approximates. I use T839 + 0.2g/L Ammonium Nitrate + potato. I'll indicate how much potato I use per 25 mL of medium (ie 1cc = 1 cubic centimeter potato/25mL).

acaule: 1:30-2:30, 1cc
arietinum: 2:30, 1cc
calceolus: 2:00-5:00, Prefer Greenpod 6 wks, 1cc?
californicum: 0:45-2:30, for lower bleach time add 0.2g/L kinetin, 0.5cc
debile: 0:35, 1cc?
fasciculatum: 1:00, 2cc
fasciolatum: 0:30, 1cc
flavum: 1:00-2:00, 1cc, No additional Ammonium Nitrate
formosanum: 0:20, 0.5cc, No/Less additional Ammonium Nitrate?
kentuckiense: 0:35, 1cc, No additional Ammonium Nitrate
macranthos: 1:00-2:30, 1cc?
montanum: Green 6-7 wks, 1cc
parviflorum varieties: 1:00-2:00, 3cc
passerinum: 1:10-1:30, 1cc, No additional Ammonium Nitrate?
plectrochilum: 3:00, 1cc?
reginae: 0:45-1:00, 1cc
tibeticum: 2:00-3:00, 1cc?



Those that I have, sadly, no information about are as follows: bardolophianum, calcicolum, candidum, cordigerum, corrugatum, dickinsonianum, elegans, fargesii, farreri, forrestii, franchetii, froschii, guttatum, himalaicum, henryi, irapeanum, japonicum, lentiginosum, ludlowii, margaritaceum, manchuricum, micranthum, molle, palangshanense, rebunense, segawai, shanxiense, sichuanense, smithii, speciosum, subtropicum, taiwanianum, wardii, wumengense, yatabeanum, yunnanense.

However, one can glean a lot from similar species, ie I would treat calcicolum, corrugatum, franchetii, froschii, himalaicum... etc the same as tibeticum and macranthos.

Best,
Ross

Errata, part 1:
arietinum: add 1mg/L kinetin
californicum: it should be 0.2mg/L kinetin not 0.2g/L!

Thanks Ross, great summary

Lori

Hello Ross,

Thanks. This help me very much.

Best wishes

Jack