Hello all;

I've prepared 4 - 3' x 8' raised beds for my starting cyp collection. I plan to fill it with 1/3 garden soil, 1/3 perlite or profile (a turface-like material) and 1/3 coarse sand (aquarium gravel-like if I can find it). The resulting beds will be covered with cold frames to control the amount of winter moisture. I live in an area which receives a thick blanket of snow but some thaws can occur in February. So far I have the following plants to put in these beds, kentuckiense, pubescens, parviflorum, reginae, acaule (I will create a separate area for this one but not sure what mix to use) and kentuckiense x fasciolatum. Anyone see problems with this plan? I'd like to get the beds done properly the first time. Can 2-yr old seedlings out of flask be grown in these beds? They'll receive morning sun and afternoon shade. Thanks in advance everyone.

Lori

PS Any suggestions on how to get some of Bill Steele's seedlings shipped to Canada.

Hi Lori,

Your beds sound fine for older seedlings, but I wonder about putting such small ones in the ground. The main problem is that they are too delicate the first few years for true outside existence - too wet, too dry, too windy, animals and insect causing damage, etc. Virtually all growers have their seedlings in pots the first few years until the plants have got some size to them: a good rhizome and a healthy root system. If you do plant them out, then expect high mortality.

A better choice at this point would be community pots of seedlings in a small greenhouse. You'll be able to grow a large number of plants in a small area and most importantly you can control the growing conditions much easier. If you optimize growth in the first few years you'll have nice plants quicker anyway. Use containers that conveniently sit side by side easily such as plastic shoe boxes. With vigorous growers like C. reginae you can probably plant seedlings out after just a couple years in a community pot.

The only other comment I could make is watch it with C. acaule. It really can't handle sweet soils at all, so when deciding on a compost think about using REALLY acidic components: partially rotted pine/fir/spruce needles, peat, acidic sand, and so on. You'll also have better success if you use vinegar water treatments on a regular basis with these. In the ground earthworms and the like can bring more basic soils into the beds and raise the pH, or even runoff from rains can do the same.

It sounds like you've had successs with your plants so far. Of course Ron can give you more precise details.

Tom

PS Bill Steele will ship to countries that don't require a phytosanitary certificate (I don't know about Canada). The only option I can think of is to have someone get some for you, have them inspected, and then send on to you. Or you can deal with Phytesia in Belgium. They will ship directly to you, and have an extensive list of species (it got even bigger this year!).

Hello all;

I've prepared 4 - 3' x 8' raised beds for my starting cyp collection. I plan to fill it with 1/3 garden soil, 1/3 perlite or profile (a turface-like material) and 1/3 coarse sand (aquarium gravel-like if I can find it). The resulting beds will be covered with cold frames to control the amount of winter moisture. I live in an area which receives a thick blanket of snow but some thaws can occur in February. So far I have the following plants to put in these beds, kentuckiense, pubescens, parviflorum, reginae, acaule (I will create a separate area for this one but not sure what mix to use) and kentuckiense x fasciolatum. Anyone see problems with this plan? I'd like to get the beds done properly the first time. Can 2-yr old seedlings out of flask be grown in these beds? They'll receive morning sun and afternoon shade. Thanks in advance everyone.

Lori

PS Any suggestions on how to get some of Bill Steele's seedlings shipped to Canada.

Hi, Lori,

I agree with Tom that your plan sounds great for older plants, I have cold frames similar to yours for plants in the 4 - 6 year range of ages (it is neat to see a lot of blooms together this way). I have been experimenting with profile and a couple of other turface look-alikes. I have found that at anything greater than about 10-15% they retain far too much water for me (I currently use about 45% perlite, 45% sand and 10% "turface.". You might want to consider that. As a source for nice sand that is much less expensive than aquarium gravel, go to a water treatment company and ask for the filter sand they sell. It is the same thing and is far less expensive since it comes in 50 pound bags. I would definitely seek out something like this as it will mix with the perlite well. Use of very fine sand will lead to its quickly finding its way to the bottom.

As for battening things down for the winter, even with the cold frame top, once the plants are dormant, you should place a sheet of window screen over them, then add several inches of leaves (make sure the plants are watered well before doing this). Then, when the top is on, you can be assured that they will not change temperature rapidly and that they will not dry out or rot from too much water.

For younger plants, you can put them into cold frames as well, but I would leave them in community pots or flats for the first three years. They get very difficult to deal with if left in a bed in a cold frame. In community pots they are easy to find and it is easy to adjust conditions in a pot or two if need be. Even folks like Malmgren, who grow thousands, do this for the first few years (he has nice shots in his website). I grow most of my seedlings in plastic storage boxs (16 qt Sterilite), with largish drainage holes drilled in the bottom (drill with only a small amount of pressure on the bit or the boxes crack). Once the seedlings become dormant, I make sure they are watered well, then put the plastic tops on the boxes and cover the whole lot with several inches of leaves, then the cold frame top. They go all winter without having to worry about a thing!

I have had excellent success with these systems for US and Asian Cyps the last couple of years. I highly recommend it!

By the way, four 3' x 8' beds sounds like you are VERY serious!!! I love it!

About shipping to Canada, this is a real problem for most small growers due to the documentation required. Bill Steele is too far from an inspector to get someone to come out to him. I have ordered many seedlings from Phytesia. Their quality is excellent!

Ron

Hi, Lori,

Here are some Cyp reginae warehoused in a cold frame. They will be planted into beds when some workmen stop their activities near the proposed bed! The top is polycarbonate and is flipped up out of the way. The reginae are in a bed of perlite, gravel, and turface and next to that bed are some warehoused older Cyps in pots. (The little stalk of purple flowers barely visible in the lower left is a Dactylorhiza majalis that is waiting to be placed into the same bed).

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/fundulopanchax/CypreginaeNelsonrescue.jpg

Ron

I'm glad this thread was started. I've got to get on the stick and build something before too long and I'm close to clueless as to what to do. Added to that I've discovered the best place to put it is where a new swale is now supposed to go. I guess it's better than finding that out after construction. Now I can re-route the swale with a lot less work. :p

Hi there;

Thanks for all the great advice guys. Will send some pics of my own once things have been set up. I can't find the coarse sand anywhere in my area. Haven't tried the municipal water treatment plant yet but the other water treatment places in town have their filters shipped to them already filled and then send them back to recycle.What about pea gravel? It's much larger than the aquarium sized sand particles though. Any other thoughts, my plants will be arriving any day now.

Lori

Hi there;

What about pea gravel? It's much larger than the aquarium sized sand particles though. Any other thoughts, my plants will be arriving any day now.

Lori

Pea gravel would work well - just make sure you have the large perlite (which is the best anyway!

Ron

So guys,
Has anyone had problems growing Cyps in large beds in terms of cross infection? When one plant is infected (through some random act of cutting with infected shears, etc) are the adjacent plants at a greater risk when in a large planting bed than in individual pots? I have never studied plant pathology, and all I know is that orchids that are outside left unclipped never have any diseases :)

Best,
Ross

So guys,
Has anyone had problems growing Cyps in large beds in terms of cross infection? When one plant is infected (through some random act of cutting with infected shears, etc) are the adjacent plants at a greater risk when in a large planting bed than in individual pots? I have never studied plant pathology, and all I know is that orchids that are outside left unclipped never have any diseases :)

Best,
Ross

Cross infection is a worry that people have. I have not had a problem in beds and my guess is that most things occuring in pots located together would have an easy time infecting everything since insects and so forth travel back and forth very freely. I know of three people who have lost large numbers of Cyps to disease. In one case, a bed was involved and lost; in the other two cases the plants were all potted and the entire greenhouses were lost. Not a nice circumstance in either case!

With some species of plants, and orchids certainly have their share, keeping the plants separate reduces the spread of several viral infections.

Best,

Ron Burch

Just doesn't seem right to grow a plant in a mix containing no organic material. I'm just so 'old-school'.

Preparing the beds today hopefully before the rain starts to that the beds can settle before I plant them.

Lori

Just a quick reply to having seedlings in cold frame.
I had it (in pots) but I had big losses due to buggs eating the tiny shots and by so destroy the seedling so be ware and keep a close eye.
Not having any organic material gives less risk of getting any buggs in the compost.
I used a bit of garden compost in my cold bed that might be the reason why I got some buggs.
My very small cold bed looks like this

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/JoakimB/P1010176Overview.jpg

I have a half barrell not to get any moles in that might attack the roots.
That requiered some work to get it well drained.

Do I have to make the bed deeper than 1 foot? Do I lay anything on the garden soil at the bottom of the bed before topping with 45% perlite, 45% pea gravel and 10% profile?

Been digging here for the past hour but will have to wait until the wind dies down before I start spreading around the perlite. First bag ended up all over the yard.

Lori

Do I have to make the bed deeper than 1 foot? Do I lay anything on the garden soil at the bottom of the bed before topping with 45% perlite, 45% pea gravel and 10% profile?

Been digging here for the past hour but will have to wait until the wind dies down before I start spreading around the perlite. First bag ended up all over the yard.

Lori

Dry perlite does like to blow around! I have 1/2 inch hardware cloth at the bottom of the cold frames which are dug aobut 8 inches below the soil line. If your soil is very porous, some people place plastic below with a few holes punched in it to maintain moisture. With the media you will use that shouldnt be necessary.

Ron