Hi,

After reading THIS (http://www.ladyslipper.com/coco3.htm) I decided to repot all my small paphs in small CHC (with about 15% aliflor and 15% fine bark - and some marble rocks for the calcicolous ones).

After that I heard that coconut products could cause disastrous damages to plants as they decompose or as they get watered with plain water. This is done by "giving off" toxic amounts of minerals and breaking the balance between K+ / Ca2+ and Mg2+. ( This is explained in details HERE (http://www.gardenscure.com/420/plant-food-nutrients/120967-growing-coco-busting-myth.html) )

So now I fear that I've made a mistake...

- Can I keep using this compot and water with a normal fertilizer and an EC between 0.3 and 0.6 mS/cm ? Or would it be like watering with plain water ?

- How long can I keep using the CHC medium before it starts decomposing and disrupt the good balance between calcium magnesium and potassium ?

Could you please help me ? The survival of dozens of cute paphs depend of that ! Have a look at them here :

http://www.orchidees.fr/forums/gallery/1234977959/gallery_3996_666_430040.jpg

I don't see why that shouldn't work. Nice plants!

I don't see why that shouldn't work. Nice plants!

Well I'm pretty sure it will work for a while, but I fear eventually the disaster explained in the article will happen ( read this (http://www.gardenscure.com/420/plant-food-nutrients/120967-growing-coco-busting-myth.html) the paragraph beginning with "Controlling the decomposition process..." )

Hi,

First off, excellent paph seedlings! What all are you growing?

I have experience with coco coir and coconut husk chips (CHC) and paphs. I used CHC with good results, particularly excellent root growth but after a few years I switched back to bark after reading one too many articles about the possible long-term effects. CHC can help to invigorate a plant with new root growth, but after a while that effect tapers off.

I never had good results with coco COIR and paphs (coir is the fine consistency like peat mix, i'm talking the aussie gold paph mix). Plants that would not grow very many roots in coir did much better after switching to bark.

However, I always had good results with CHC. Did you soak the CHC before using, per the Antec instructions? You should be ok to keep your seedlings in it for a year. For me, CHC always was great for compots/seedlings.

Watch for chlorosis, excessive bleaching of the plant leaves. One of the reasons I switched back to bark overall is that I grow under HID lamps, very high light, and I wanted to avoid the plants turning too yellow (irrigating with epsom salts also helps). For my conditions under lights, the CHC had better water retention characteristics than bark, so now i top dress the bark with sphaghum to keep moisture in.

After a year, you should decide if you need to switch back to bark. I predict your roots will grow well. I still have many flaskings in CHC compots that have been growing great. They are about to go out of compots into 2" pots with fine bark seedling mix.

Good luck, and don't forget to tell us what all those seedlings are!

Great looking plants!

How long have the plants been in the CHC medium? Usually you should repot all of your plants once a year just to get them into a new medium to prevent a lot of decomposition in the pots. Once you hit the year mark with the CHC then I would say go back to a normal fine bark mix.

Thanks for your answer Justin,

I'm using THIS PRODUCT (http://www.atami.com/countries/products.php?Region=North+America&Country=USA&Page=Products&ProdId=80&ProductLine=Substrates&SubCategory=Product+Information). They say it has been washed, steamed and buffered so I just washed it for a minute with tap water. Still wondering if that's a mistake...

I switched to coco only for seedlings. I was disappointed about the behaviour of the fine bark, it was very decomposed after less that one year and there was no more air circulation in the compot. The medium bark that I use for bigger plants lasts longuer it seems. I'm repotting seedlings at least every year, I hope there will be no harm done by next year.

As you insisted on knowing the names, here's the list of the paphs I have :

Seedlings :

anitum x delenatii
appletonianum
barbatum
barbatum var. nigritum
bellatulum x glaucophyllum
braemii
bullenianum ( just bloomed for first time )
bundtii
callosum
chamberlaineanum
chapmannii
charlesworthii
chiwuanum
ciliolare
curtisii
dayanum
delenati
dianthum
druryi
emersonii
esquirolei
exul
gardneri
gigantifolium
gigantifolium x lowii
gigantifolium x richardianum
gigantifolium x rothschildianum
gigantifolium x st swithin
gigantifolium x stonei
glaucophyllum
hangianum
hangianum x vietnamense
Harold Koopowitz
haynaldianum
haynaldianum var. album
helenae
henryanum
hermannii
hirsutissimum
insigne
jackii
javanicum
kolopakingii
lawrenceanum
lowii
Magic Lantern
malipoense
mastersianum
michael koopowitz x st swithin
michael koopowitz
michael koopowitz x kolopakingii
Michael Koopowitz X St. Swithin
micranthum
micranthum x wenshanense
moquetteanum
moustache
Norito Hasegawa x fairreanum
parishii
praestans
primulinum var purpurascens
primulinum x chamberlaineanum
purpuratum
rothschildianum
rothschildianum x praestans
rothschildianum x St. Swithin
sanderianum
sanderianum x gigantifolium
spicerianum
st swithin
St. Swithin x supardii
stonei
superbiens
susan booth
susan booth x rothschildianum
Susan Booth x Wayne Booth
tigrinum
tonsum
tranlienianum
tranlienianum x wardii
urbanianum (just bloomed for first time)
venustum
venustum var. album
victoria-mariae
victoria-reginae
vietnamense
vietnamense x delenatii
vietnamense x glaucophyllum
vietnamense x kalinae
vietnamense x kalinae
vietnamense x micranthum
vietnamense x Susan Booth
villosum
wardii
wardii var album
wenshanense x glaucophyllum
wenshanense x leucochilum
wilhelminae


Bigger ones (not all of them have bloomed) :

adductum x philippinense
adductum x sanderianum
Armeni White (delenatii x armeniacum)
Armeni White x emersonii
armeniacum
armeniacum x hangianum
armeniacum x vietnamense
bel Royal
chamberlainianum x Prince Edward of York
clair de lune
delenatii
fairrieanum
exul
gardnerii
gardneri x philippinense
gratixianum
hainanense
haynaldianum x philippinense
Ho Chi Minh
Ho Chi Minh x delenatii
kolopakingii
Kolosand Wössner
lady isabel x praestans x sanderianum
Lady Rothschild
lantha stage
lowii
malipoense
maudiae the king alba x philippinense alba
philippinense
philippinense var. roebellini
phillipinense laevigatum
praestans
primulinum
purpuratum
rothschildianum
rothschildianum x anitum
rothschildianum x esquirolei
rothschildianum x fairrieanum vinicolor
rothschildianum x lowii
rothschildianum x maudiae vinicolor
sangii
spicerianum
st swithin
st swithin x anitum
st swithin x malipoense
stonei
sukhakulii
sukhakulii x kolopakingii
tonsum
topperi
bullenianum tortipetalum
tranlienianum
venustum
villosum

excellent collection of species and hybrids!

I've been wrestling with this for some time myself. My thoughts are that if I can use a medium for 2 years before I repot, I'm happy. For me, bark mixes require repotting every 12-18 months while many authors claim to get 3 years out of coconut husk. I figure that I'll split the difference and use coconut husk but repot every 2 years and avoid the decomposition many authors say causes disaster. So far I've had a few in coconut husk for 2 years with no problems. When I repotted them the mix was barely decomposing (at least to the naked eye).

I've been wrestling with this for some time myself. My thoughts are that if I can use a medium for 2 years before I repot, I'm happy. For me, bark mixes require repotting every 12-18 months while many authors claim to get 3 years out of coconut husk. I figure that I'll split the difference and use coconut husk but repot every 2 years and avoid the decomposition many authors say causes disaster. So far I've had a few in coconut husk for 2 years with no problems. When I repotted them the mix was barely decomposing (at least to the naked eye).

I'm a bit relieved by your words...Could you tell what kind of product you used (brand and model) ? and if your washed and buffered it before using ?

I used 50/50 chc and perlite mix for many years on paphs and never had any problems except I ended up with an infestation of ferns, a common problem here with spores coming through with the water, which grew so well in the chc mix they smothered and killed some paphs. Even when the chc had broken down to the basic fibers the paphs still grew well if there were no ferns in with them. The longest I had plants in the same mix was over 2 years and the roots were the best I had seen. Just make sure that you CHC has no salt in it by washing it before use.

I was using coco chips but they dry out to quick i think and are hard to re wet and get mould/bugs living in them i rekon. I'm using bark at the moment with good results.

I was using coco chips but they dry out to quick i think and are hard to re wet and get mould/bugs living in them i rekon. I'm using bark at the moment with good results.

I don't have this kind of problem, right now I can wait more than 7 days before I need to water again. It seems to CHC compot has very good water retention while keeping good air circulation. I think it really depends on the conditions, if you have a lot of air circulation and high temperatures it may dry too fast, but with my western european conditions (temperatures around 20°C and litttle air circulation except during summer) it seems OK.

I'm a bit relieved by your words...Could you tell what kind of product you used (brand and model) ? and if your washed and buffered it before using ?

I use the brand vended by Orchids Limited. Although they say it does not need washing, I still washed mine twice with regular tap water. I did not buffer by adding Ca or Mg, but our tap water has lots of Ca in it already.

Hi,

After reading THIS (http://www.ladyslipper.com/coco3.htm) I decided to repot all my small paphs in small CHC (with about 15% aliflor and 15% fine bark - and some marble rocks for the calcicolous ones).

After that I heard that coconut products could cause disastrous damages to plants as they decompose or as they get watered with plain water. This is done by "giving off" toxic amounts of minerals and breaking the balance between K+ / Ca2+ and Mg2+. ( This is explained in details HERE (http://www.gardenscure.com/420/plant-food-nutrients/120967-growing-coco-busting-myth.html) )

So now I fear that I've made a mistake...

- Can I keep using this compot and water with a normal fertilizer and an EC between 0.3 and 0.6 mS/cm ? Or would it be like watering with plain water ?

- How long can I keep using the CHC medium before it starts decomposing and disrupt the good balance between calcium magnesium and potassium ?

Could you please help me ? The survival of dozens of cute paphs depend of that ! Have a look at them here :

http://www.orchidees.fr/forums/gallery/1234977959/gallery_3996_666_430040.jpg

Coconut works at me very well. Loot at my photo:
http://www.slipperorchidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43874

Coconut works at me very well. Loot at my photo:
http://www.slipperorchidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43874

Yes, I've seen your post before I started repotting all my small paphs...that was one more positive feedback (along with the article from Antec).

Hi Laurent

I used CHC but in a small proportion in my mix : 80% of bark with lava rock /perlite and 15% of CHC.

I have the advantages of CHC for the roots and water retention and advantages of the barks which doen't break down too fast.

If you repot every year (I think it is better for the paph and I do every year) you will avoid all problems.

I can't see why potting them into that would be a bad decision. Just repot them every year and you will have few or no problems.

They looks fine to me, you have a great collection.

I use straight medium chunks CHC for everything, (I only grow muiltflorals though). The roots seem to love it. Had a parishii with a one inch root that after 2 months filled the pot. The only drawback is you have to water more often but the benefit is more air to the roots. I also grow in 75 plus humidity which is also seems to be a factor in water retention. All my seedlings out of flask even seem to be doing well. I used to grow in bark mix but it was a disaster for me , the stuff would just hold water on the individual bark surfaces too long encouraging rot of the roots. Back then my humidity ran at 60-70 percent. I also place a styrofoam bits in the bottoms of the pots to encourage good drainage. I ahve never lost a plant since doing this. I also encourage repotting every year to 16 months to avoid problems with CHC decomposition (if there is any i dont want to find out the hard way)

I am not sure of our water quality in seattle , but i am sure it is another reason why my paphs do so well

Hi,

CHC is very to roots vigor and fast recovery for rootless paph.
For my part I used CHC but mixed with bark and pouzzolane ; I put 25% of CHC in bark with pouz.

I keep the advantages of CHC for the roots and the safety of bark for the plant.

My CHCH is washed and treated with calcium and magnesium to avoid issue. I give orchid focus fertilizer regularly.

I observed after 10 to 12 months taht almost pure CHC break down very quickly but it is not a issue because paph need to be repotted every 12 months.

Hope it will help

we need an update for this thread!

we need an update for this thread!

OK, here's an update that's also a bit of a tangent.

I've been using coconut husk for about four years with good results. The exception was with plants with few roots. I have had two seedlings with no roots because of over watering in coconut husk. I then placed them in a mix of 50% supersphag and 50% perlite with great results. After a year two plants (a papuanum and a barbigerum) both rooted and doubled the number of leaves. I use clay pots and the mix seems to "breathe" in clay such that after two years (the longest I've gone without re-potting) there was no visible breakdown. I've placed some mature plants in the same mix in clay pots with relatively rapid growth ensuing within 1 month. In addition, the 50/50 supersphag/perlite mix is much easier to use and the re-potting process is easier than with bark or coconut husk. The major downside is that watering must occur more frequently since it dries out much faster than any other mix I've ever used. I must also say that I only have about 5 mature plants in this mix for more than 1 year, but all do better than they have ever done in other mixes. The results are short-term, but I'm happy with them.