In my search for information on besseae, I stumbled across the information in SOF (I think by Kyle). I read so many articles by so many professionals about the differences between dalessandroi & besseae. Each of these articles is worse than the next. Some say this one is redder or smaller than that, others say exact the reverse. etc..you name it.
Now Kyle explanation & pictures are unbelievable good. It should be in the AOS magazin.
This arcticle is what hooks me back to the forum again and again, then I start to read others.
The only problem is I could not ask questions until I figure out the registration process.(took me awhile to figure it out! pretty sad huh) Hope to get lot of help from everybody. That is for the near future.

The reason I post this is that I seen others posts about kovachii. Just to let everyone know that PERU-FLORA will be at REDLAND ORCHIDS SHOW around May 19 to May 21 and they will bring kovachii flasks with them.
I emailed Manolo, he sent me the new list with pretty much everything available in size"D" 5 to 7 seedling now, the price is only 105 dollar for the flask so I request quite a few different crosses (I did not order before because in the past only 25 & 50 plants available and cost thousand & where would I grow them , if they survive)

I heard from different people, that the plants are small. But unlike me, some SOF members may have better growing skills, or know how to replate.
Hope this information is helpful to whomever been deaming about kovachii like me.

I can not help it when I look at the clone "TUPAC AMARU", and yep, they have kovachii x dalessandroi . I keep asking about when will they have that in smaller flask. ( so they say they will bring that as well)

My God, what I get myself into, I do not know how to replate, nor do I have equipment to do that. Let hope they are not to small.

Hien

Hello and welcome to the forum!

kovachii flasks are always exciting! I picked one up from Piping Rock a few weeks ago and have been staring at it for most of the time since then.

Do you know if Peruflora is requesting that people sign the forms promising not to sell seedlings until March 2007?

It is nice that this forum has so many learned growers and scientists. I am constantly learning new stuff.

--Stephen

Hi Stephen

yes, I ask about the form in my email to them. Manolo emails it to me (It is a very simple form) I print it out, sign, scan it then email back. If you want to see what it looks like (If I still have the original file saved in the computer at work , I will forward it to you)
None of us will resale those plants any way, 5 plants is the small number for a cross that you dream about, for giving them away, I wouldn't worry about it at all (a year from now, they won't be blooming yet, so you want to see them blooming before decide which one to give away anyway)
I know exactly how you feel. I look at the flask everyday too. Yours look a little better than mine. I put mine in the backpack, while making round at Rockeffeler, I bent down to to look at some plants. Near the end, I realize what I am doing at the time, holy crap, that means the flask goes sideway then straight up again in my backpack every time I look at something. And I look at a lot of things at the show. It must be like putting the flask thru the clothes dryer.
Like you (I also got a 1/2 flask from Glen Decker) I always stop & buy plants at the Glen's stand at shows in New Jersey & New York. He is extremely nice (One time, I mention that I could not keep the besseaes I got from other dealer like Mount Prospect alive. He just casually reaches over one of his besseae "Wing of Fire" x self, hands it to me, and says" Why don't you give this one a try, it is free" )very generous person.
Did you notice how small the kovachii sign at Glen's table. I almost miss it, at first I thought It is only a picture, until I read the for sale small print. I almost have a heart attack right there. I hardly be able to keep my composure. My worst fear is they are already sold out.
Some people may think the kovachii are expensive. But I do not think it is true (less than 20 dollars a plant ! ) most of us spent more than that for other plants that we give away later. I saw people buy phals for twice that amount at the GNYOS show.
The reason that I want to get the ones from PERU-FLORA is that the pictures of the 5 very different clone that I saw in one of the SOF thread, and that Manolos mentions that they will not repeat certain cross again.
I figure, with the crosses that I pick (If they survive) only 5 to 7 plants of each cross, all of the flower will look different from each other.

751 kovachii “Goliath” x “Jewel”
752 kovachii “Goliath” x “Roseline”
755 kovachii “Roseline” x self
756 kovachii “Tupac Amaru” x “Goliath”
757 kovachii “Tupac Amaru” x “Maximus”
758 kovachii “Maximus” x “Goliath”
761 wallisii “Rapunzel”x kovachii ‘Tupac Amaru”
763 kovachii “Tupac Amaru” x “Roseline”
764 kovachii “Tupac Amaru” x self
783 kovachii”Tupac Amaru”x dalessandroi

This cost the same as buying of the only type of flask available a year ago (the 50 plants size) of the same cross.

I also commit to the cross " Jewel" x "Roseline" with Chuck from CHUCK ACKER (because I knew , I always get very good quality plants from him) for now, however this is the only cross he has. I am not sure , Chuck will have any others later
So I contact PERU-FLORA, to be sure that I get what they may not repeat.

I figure, other people may not want to get a lot of crosses, they could just get the selfing like:
"Jewel" x self
"Roseline" x self
"Tupac Amaru" x self
Then years from now do their all crosses.

Stephen, this is really an extremely awfully BIG! purchase for me! like 10 years of Christmas gift to myself all combine in to one. (but we are talking about kovachii). My only rational to my guilt is that I do sent money to charities ( so, I should treat myself nice too) besides I don't gamble, drink, doing drug, nor smoke. Any of those could easily cost a lot more (have you see the cost of a pack of cigarette lately) compare this to the cross "Tupac Amaru" x dalessandroi at the price of 105 dollar for 5 to 7 seedlings.

Don't forget to let me know when you deflask the kovachii from Glen, so I can time mine correctly.

Hien

Hello, If you wouldn't mind, please forward the form to me at:
silence882@gmail.com

I am very interested to see what connection it has to INRENA in Peru.

I certainly have no intention of selling any of my plants! Although I'm sure a lot of the commercial growers are aggravated by the form. I still don't know what all is going on in Peru.

I forgot to ask Glen or Fritz if they kept track of which parents were used in the cross I bought. I did, however, just get my certificate from them stating that the plants are of legal origin (#0002, unfortunately someone in San Francisco bought a flask before me, so I don't get to be #1). I got a bag and babied mine around New York until I got them home safely. I may try to find a place around me that can do replating for some of the tiny seedlings in the flask. I might be able to convince one of the growers in my region to do it for me in their labs.

The sign was way too small! I just happened to glance at it while wandering by their table. The sign for the sanderianum flasks was even smaller. I wasn't going to get any, but when Fritz showed them to me I couldn't resist. They continue to grow very nicely. Luckily I was able to control myself and not buy anything else.

I talked to Glen for about 10 minutes about the whole kovachii fiasco. He was very nice and helpful as usual. I was surprised that the flasks were only $225. I thought they would have been a lot more. I will probably deflask them in August. I like to let them get nice and large in flask so they can take the stress of compotting.

You will have to let me know how all the crosses look! I am jealous of how many different plants you will have. The x wallisii cross is the one I have been most anticipating. A long, wide, bright-purple petalled Phrag should be amazing. Hopefully the AOS will continue to wait a while before issuing awards; otherwise, we'll have another Paph. armeniacum situation.

I have bought a dozen or so flasks and compots from Chuck and every one has been of the highest quality.

I don't like selfings, personally. I prefer to get as much genetic diversity in my plants as possible.

It sounds like a huge purchase! But you're definitely making a good investment. The prices will probably spike in 2-3 years when the first examples start blooming then stabilize to a reasonable, but relatively high price for a phrag. I am envious of your purchase!

How much light have you been giving your flask? Fritz told me he was keeping them 16-18" from a single-tube flourescent fixture, which is a lot less than I thought. I keep them on a shelf across the room from a double window that lets in lots of light. It never gets more than about 100 foot-candles.

--Stephen

Hi Stephen

I asked Fritz & Glen for the name at the show (because Fritz, Glen & Manrique also work with 5 legal plants like Peru-Flora) Knowing my self- control, I need to know the name of the cross so I will not get the same thing next time (who know, Glen may have different kovachii species crosses later).

The cross parents' name for the one we bought at Rockeffeler is
"Anna" x "Laura"

I got the certficate no. 3. Right behind yours. To own these first plants is like to own First Edition of a very sought after book isn't it.

I will look for the form tomorrow if I still have it. Really it is a very simple form.

I think the plants are made available so fast & the prices are purposedly set at a quite reasonable level (compare to besseae in the past) is that the Peruvian goverment & the people involve in the production like PERU-FLORA & Manrique/fritz/Glen group play a better hand in the strategy to defeat all of the illegal collectioners who try to corner the market while destroy the nature resource. Right now none of the illegal ones, or seedlings can be sold, anyone surface will be confisticated. By the time any of them can be muddled in with the legal one, the prices will be even lower. It will be to late for their owners to make any profit. And none of their plants can even be claimed to have different, desirable features than the 2 groups of original legal collected plants overnight, say, where would you get green color, 12" bloom from the 7" purple parents? Line breeding in one generation? there goes the selling point up in smoke ( If they want to pass them as descendants of the legal ones).
I believe the more people buy the kovachii from people like PERU-FLORA , Chuck Acker, Orchid Limited or Manrique/Fritz/Glen group the more indirectly they support a good effort of deterence against illegal collection.
For now I put my flask all the way in the back, since I do not know how much light is 100 fc. ( I have big South-eastern window) perhaps someone reading this may be able to tell me how far from the window I should put the flask.
The only reason I also get plant from PERU-FLORA is that from the pictures they look so different from the Manrique 's ones.
Let me know if you get any from them also.
Just by curiosity, which crosses you got from Chuck?

Hien

Hein, welcome to the forum.

I just checked the vendor list for the Redlands Orchid Festival -- http://www.redlandorchidfestival.org/ -- and I do not see PeruFlora on the list. I do see a couple of other Peru vendors, however. Maybe you have one of these in mind?

If not, I am curious, since they are not listed, where you might have gotten your information about PeruFlora?

Hi phragfan

Thanks for the welcoming. and also for the info on REDLAND website.
hum! That is interesting. I follow your lead to the REDLAND website, sure enough there is no PERU-FLORA in the vendors list like you said.
Oh!Oh! I start to worry! pleaseee everybody, pray with me for deliverance (that is kovachii flask delivery)
I just email PERU-FLORA again to inquired whether they still going to Redland as planned, or partipate as part of another vendor stand?
The email back and for w/ PERU-FLORA is alsways a little bit slow. So I will have to keep my fingers crossed, my toes crossed, my eyes crossed until I hear otherwise from them.
I am not too worry about anything funny going on, because most people will rather keep a good reputation. Further more, Chuck Acker & Jerry Fischer of Orchid Limited think highly of Manolos, it can not be bad. I also known that a lot of people get flasks from them already.
I hear anything , I will keep you posted, please do otherwise.

Hien

Hello again,

Thanks for the cross info, I will add it to my ever-growing spreadsheet of info. It is nice to know I am one of the first to own legal seedlings of the species.

Thanks very much for sending along the form. As I suspected, it doesn't say anything about being associated with INRENA.

I am looking forward to the variety that will start appearing in the next few years. The blooms seem to range quite markedly in size and coloration.

The crosses I have gotten from Chuck are:
sanderianum 'Jungle Monarch' x 'Jungle Warrior'
kolopakingii 'Riopelle' FCC/AOS x self

besseae 'Paute' x 'A-One'
China Dragon 4N (besseae 'Rocket Town' 4N x Grande 'Vista' 4N)
Demetria 'Mem. Don Walklet' HCC/AOS x wallisii 'Warrior'
Don Wimber 4N (Eric Young 'Rocket Fire' 4N x besseae 'Rocket Town' 4N)
Eric Young (longifolium 'Waunakee' x besseae 'Cow Hollow II' FCC/AOS)
Sunset Glow 'Rocket Flare' 4N x Grande 'Vista' 4N
Twilight 'Rising Rocket' 4N AM/AOS x besseae 'Rocket Town' 4N

--Stephen

Hi Stephen

You shouldn't feel bad that you do not have all the kovachii crosses. Knowing how much you like the cross wallisii "Rapunzel" x kovachii "Tupac Amaru" ,If I have more than 5 seedlings, I will give you one of the seedling, after the signing agreement period of Mach 2007 is being fullfilled of course (That is If I CAN KEEP THEM ALIVE FIRST)
I have 3 of your crosses:
-China Dragon 4N= besseae'Rocket Town'x Grande'Vista'
-Don Wimber 4N=Eric Young'Rocket Fire' x besseae'Rocket Town'
-Twilight 'Rising Rocket'xbesseae'Rocket Town"
The others I have are:
-Demetria'Mem Don Walklet" x besseae'Cow hollow II'
-Jason fischer3N=MDC'Rocket Flash' x besseae'Cow Hollow II'
-Twilight'Rising Rocket' x China Dragon'Inferno'
-Sunset Glow 4N=EY'Rocket Fire' x MDM'Rocket Flash'
-Twilight'Rising rocket' x Waunakee Sunset
-Demetria'Mem Don Walklet' x Twilight'Rising Rocket'
-MDM 'Rocket Flash' x Twilight'Rising Rocket'
-Jason Fischer4N=MDM'Rocket Flash' x besseae'Rocket Town'
-Icho Tower4N=besseae'Rocket Town' x Beauport'Rose Rocket'

Among all of these, the China Dragon 4N cross &
the Twilight x China Dragon cross
seem to have water logged, light tannish-brown leaves easily (i sit all the crosses in water) maybe somebody or you can tell me why it is so? Is this because I sit them in water, why only these crosses show the symtom?


Hien

That's a pretty awesome list of kovachii and kovachii hybrids! I can't wait until 2015 when I can finally get my hands on one of those!:mrgreen:

Hien,

Hopefully we can trade come March! I am anxious to see what crosses Glen releases. I'm hoping somewhere along the line a kovachii x Grande cross is made. Phrag. China Dragon is one of my favorites, so it would be nice to have a purple one to make a pair.

I dunno why only a few of your crosses would show the symptoms, but it sounds like salt buildup to me. Do you flush the pots regularly? I have some of my plants sitting in water, but it is constantly moving. I get the impression that sitting pots in stagnant water leads to salt buildup, which leads to brown mushy leaves and leaf tips. I posted pics of my setup here:

http://www.slipperorchidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4646

Hope this helps!

I would guess (and i'm usually wrong when I start a sentence this way) that the cost of kovachii and its hybrids will spike then fall precipitously to a bit above current besseae-hybrid prices, then settle out over time. Hopefully, before 2015 so I can get some too...

--Stephen

Hi zach

Why 2015?
Seriously , they are not that expensive as it seems , like I say, if you thinking back of all of the other orchids you ever bought, I guarantee you find some that cost more than them or may be the price of a combining dozen that you bought "even still beautiful" that you would rather give away to someone who is just starting a collection, no?(when they are first discovered, I thought something like that would cost 10,000 of dollar at least, remember the besseae? and I would be lucky to get my hand on them around 3,000AD too)
If you ask Stephen,I think he will concur with me on the affordable issue. You can contact all the legitimate vendors (Right now, only a handfull, everybody knows who these good guys are) I believe 2 in PERU, 4 in USA (including Orchid Limited) , and 1 in CANADA. Other SOF members may know more than I do.
I am not suggesting you should buy because other people think the kovachii are nice, if you think you really like other phrags or paphs more, or you rather wait for the hybrids. I know that the seedlings for kovachii x Twilight (which is a very nice plant by itself) & kovachii x Walter schomburg (which is also an extremely nice one too) will make debut this August with even a lower price than the species (Truthfully, I think a lot of the illegal owners kind of crying a little bit right now, think of owning something, you could not even show or share the beauty with others, what's the point)

Hien

Hi Stephen

I put a new reply on your "flow stand thread " I did not realize that it is an old thread. so I will just abbreviate what I said here.
-yes,March sounds good. Once the flasks are here, I will post of their condition.
-My new flask for GNYOS had a couple bottom leaves yellow. I wonder if I have it too close to the window (3,4 feet to my southeast window) did you say you keep yours at the opposite wall (do you have any bottom leaves yellow?)

Hien