I am using a fertilizer made for R/O and Distilled water to water my phrags. The balance is 1-0-1 and I am watering with it at every watering, with a good plain water flush every third watering or so. I water with distilled water twice a week but will be switching to R/O as soon as my pump comes in.

My questions:

What is the middle component of the 1-0-1 balance, and should I use a supplement to make up for the lack of it in this fertilizer?

Should I use a higher concentrate fertilizer once a month, or is a very light and steady feed enough?

nitrogen-phosphorous-potassium

very light, steady feeding is better, in my humble opinion, than less frequent, heavier feeding. I would recommend using a more balanced fertilizer at low concentrations and using pure water every fourth or fifth watering to wash out any built up salts.

--Stephen

I would also check the pH of the fertilizer solution. RO and Di water have no buffering capacity, so will not regulate the pH of fertilizer mix. A solution designed for these water types should have a bit of buffer added to keep the pH from getting to low (<5.0) but it never hurts to check.

Nitrogen-Phosphorous-Potassium Got it.

I am using Green Jungle Orchid Food from Orchids Limited. Maybe someone "in the know" about this fertilizer can pipe in with the information about buffering and such. I have no idea how to figure this out, and the label doesn't tell me much. But the website says it is specially formulated to work with R/O and distilled so I think it must be made to hit the right spot for phrags. They use it on their own phrags I think, so if it is good enough for them...etc.

I was asking if I should use a balanced fertilizer in a very diluted concentration as a supplement once a month, not so much as a replacement of the Green Jungle. Or would some other additive be a better supplement? Or do I even need a supplement?

umm I can't find any detailed info on the fertilizer. Does it list micronutrient content? Some slippers grow in environments that provide virtually no phosphorous and iron, so it depends on how meticulous you want to get...

--Stephen

Stephen,

That really brings me to another question, which might be better suited to a different thread, really.

I have a few besseae species plants, which I am pretty confident I understand the culture requirements for. But I also have about thirty besseae related hybrids. Some are primary, but most are complex. All of them look good except one, Mountain Maid (besseae x hirtzii). I can't seem to find any specific culture info for phrags. The plant is heavily hirtzii influenced, and it looks rougher and rougher by the day. I have no idea if it is watering, light or what because the plant exhibits several symptoms (black spots, brown spots, yellowing leaves). It is just plain unhappy, and I don't know what to do to get it turned around.

Where can I get the most specific culture information for specific species of phrags? In hybrids, do you follow the culture requirements for the parent that the hybrid most resembles?

Ok, back to fertilizer. The label says...

Total Nitrogen (N) 1.0%
Soluble Potash (K20) 1.0%
Plant nutrient derived from Potassium Nitrate

Wetting agent added for penetration at the root zone.

I would like to know as much as I can about the effects of the fertilizer, but without specific culture information on the parents of my phrags, I don't think it would tell me much.

For besseae and its hybrids, water quality is of the utmost importance. I would say 1/4-1/3 of the label dose, even with 'orchid' fertilizers. I would also go with pH and TDS meters. pH should read 6.0-6.3 and TDS <350 ppm, although the lower the better. Also, direct sun (as I have learned by burning my plants in the past few days during a failed experiment) is very very bad.

Culture info by species isn't nearly as widespread as it is for Paphs. I haven't really started looking, although it will probably take a lot of searching.

As for the Green Jungle Fertilizer, you may wanna e-mail Orchids Limited and ask for information. I can't find manufacturer's info on the net. I really do hope it's more than just an aqueous solution of Potassium Nitrate. With R/O or distilled, this wouldn't provide the micronutrients necessary for optimal growth. However you decide, try to keep the nitrogen from urea concentration low.

For a detailed article on growing besseae hybrids, I would recommend:

Doherty, J., and G. Decker. "Phragmipediums, Hybrids Derived from Phragmipedium besseae Are Delivering Exciting New Colors on Easy-to-Grow Plants." Orchids 68, no. 8 (Aug 1999): 778-89.

If you don't have access to AOS back issues, let me know and I can scan it for you.

--Stephen

What do others use for fertilizing phrags? I have heard of the MSU fertilizer, but I don't know where to buy it.

I did buy a TDS meter when I ordered my new R/O system so I can monitor disolved solids. I hope it comes this week. Anyone know where I can get a decent, affordable ph meter?

What do others use for fertilizing phrags? I have heard of the MSU fertilizer, but I don't know where to buy it.

I did buy a TDS meter when I ordered my new R/O system so I can monitor disolved solids. I hope it comes this week. Anyone know where I can get a decent, affordable ph meter?

If you want something quick and cheap you can use the pH test kits that are available at pet stores for fish tanks. I have been round and round on the water issue with my phrags. They are so snobby when it comes to water. I have almost decided to give up phrags all together because of it! If it wasn't for dang Ruby Slippers and long petaled species I'd be done! They whine about any little drop of water that isn't rain water or distilled...brown leaf tips, yellow leaves, no growth, sulk sulk sulk! I have an r/o system but it doesn't work properly and I didn't know that until I got a TDS meter. Finally I started collecting rainwater and they perked right up after that. I only fertilize about once a month with a very weak solution, because I am afraid to continuously fertilize due to their sensitivity. I'm hoping the rain water provides some nutrients.

Stephen,
I'd love a copy of that article if you wouldn't mind scanning it?
Thanks!

re: fertilizers, I use the msu - used to use for distilled, now I use the one for tap. I've actually upped my schedule in the last month due to the fact that I need to bring my tap water pH down and that's an easy way to do it, and my Phrags haven't skipped a beat. I have used Green Jungle, and Dyna Grow in the past. I think that, as long as you aren't trying to track fertilizer as a variable, switching it up and using different formulations every now and then isn't such a bad thing.

I used to over think this issue a lot, but now I try to just run with it. The move has not been easy on my besseaes, but they seem to be holding their own. Right now, I'm dealing with high humidity issues (never would have thought I'd have THAT problem!)

What do others use for fertilizing phrags? I have heard of the MSU fertilizer, but I don't know where to buy it.

I did buy a TDS meter when I ordered my new R/O system so I can monitor disolved solids. I hope it comes this week. Anyone know where I can get a decent, affordable ph meter?

I get my MSU from Roberts Flower Supply (orchidmix.com).

Cole palmer is one company that sells affordable pH pens ($80-$150), but I know that there must be others.

I think I might give MSU a shot just to see how they respond. I don't have the time or patience to track fertilizer as a variable. Ok, maybe the time but not the patience.

Thanks for the advice on the ph meters. I will try to track my water quality, but if I can't get it to balance out right I will be asking for suggestions.

It is amazing how fast Phrags can grow. I have one plant that had no new growths when I bought it, and now it is sending up four, and the tallest is one inch long! I just bought it two months ago! That also has me worried because if they grow fast, they can go downhill fast. With Neofinetia, you usually see the train wreck coming in enough time to correct the problem.

Thanks for the advice on the ph meters. I will try to track my water quality, but if I can't get it to balance out right I will be asking for suggestions.

Ooh, forgot to say, I bought a Hanne combo EC/TDS/pH meter, and I have to say, though it was expensive, it has been very useful to me because there is no guesswork, if I'm concerned about my water, I just check it. I have found it to be worth every penny (especially with my recent move - Neo- that might be a good investment since you move frequently - at least if you wanted to use tap water).

When you purchase the MSU fertilizer, remember that it comes in two formulations: one for rain/RO/distilled water and the other for tap/well water. Be sure to match the fertilizer to your type of water. Also be careful -- I've seen "MSU" fertilizer for sale from some vendors who say that one type is for all kinds of water. It is not!

Here is the history: We had an intern from MSU working for us. He told us about the MSU fertilizer, and he worked with the professor who formulated it -- originally for the MSU ground water. The professor came out to our greenhouse, saw that we were using rain water, and created a formula for us to use with that type of water supply. We not only used it, but we sold both formulas. Soon word got out, and since MSU did not have ownership of the formulas, other people also started selling it. There was an article about the formulas some time ago in Orchids magazine, listing several sources for it's purchase. Now, you can find others, as well.

Just be sure to match the fertilizer type with the kind of water you use. One size does not fit all.

I found this article real helpful. I called blackmore compary directly and got the RO formula for around $54 US for a 25 pound box. Rusty

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:3HUPsbV3d3kJ:www.firstrays.com/PDF/Part%25205%2520-%2520final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a

Just a quick update. I got my R/O system in the mail yesterday. It is a nice little countertop unit and it wasn't very expensive.

I used the TDS meter I bought with it to check our tap water before treatment and came up with 730 ppm! After running through the R/O pump the TDS meter read 25 ppm. Big difference there.

I am still thinking about a PH meter, but I will probably end up buying one.

I also talked to Jerry at Orchids Limited and he told me that Green Jungle is full of micronutrients, but that the exact formula is proprietary. And since he spent 9 years and a LOT of money developing it, it should be IMO.