deleted

Lance,
I appreciate all of your tips posted lately, and of course the availability of your chapters online makes your plugs a little more accessible to the general public.
:wink: Which is a good thing!

I guess what I keep wondering is, if you haven't grown slippers in 17 years, are you really up on the current science? What about experimenting with current thought? Have you? Why did you stop, if you are so knowledgeable about growing slippers? I don't understand this aspect of your experience. :confused:

And yes...I am reading your book, and have changed some of my strategies based on it, but I have to say I take it with a grain of salt, being that I am new, reticent to take one's word as GOD in this convoluded field, and knowing that you haven't grown in 17 years.

Please! Help me, and other relatively new people to the subtleties of the slipper world, understand why we should take your word as the ONE.

Heather, in time you'll realize that what works for others may not necessarily work for you. So, don't take anybody's word as god's, not even mine; although we can all learn from others' experience for sure. :)

Heather, in time you'll realize that what works for others may not necessarily work for you...

Oh Peter, you know I already HAVE. But I'd like others to hear some reasons why as well....I am not the only relatively new person to slippers that participate here.

Well PG, you really don't have to take my word over anyone else's. I'm just offering the benefit of my extensive knowledge to anyone who wishes to learn. You can choose to take whatever parts you read in my book that you like, but eventually, I'll win you over, you will see.

Realistically, there is no 'current science'. The needs of orchids have never changed; what they required 17 years ago are still the same requirements they have today. It is only the application of providing for those needs which have changed recently......(as they have from the time they were first cultivated...read their history).

As for my 'requirements'; I'm not an ordinary guy, as you will eventually read about in my next book, and I STUDIED orchids with a passion for a long time. I have a gift of observation and of intellect, and I have exercised them both, frequently. As you will read in my current book, I never set out to write this book, but the task was left to me and I stepped up to the plate.

You can call me "God" if you wish, (my ex-wife had other names for me), but several others have recently begun to call me a "Rock Star". (I know this offends you PG, but see the humor.)

And to answer your question of why I no longer grow orchids, you can also read about it on pages 145-146. Unfortunately, I contracted an extremely nasty form of rust some years ago, from a plant I had imported from Thailand. That disease was uncontrollable and I eventually lost my entire collection of orchids. Rust sporolates and I could never be certain it would not reappear in another greenhouse, so I dismantled my greenhouse. I am so fortunate in that it seems to have never re-infected anyone else's plants, that I know of.

(Take the plunge my dear),

Lance

(Take the plunge my dear),

Lance

Okay, yeah, see? that's where you lose me...I've read the rust story as many times as you have posted it online...AND in the book... and I say...

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again! How will you know otherwise?
Plunge yourself, Lance...I contend there have been scientific advancements. Hell, besseae was barely in existence when you stopped growing. BUT! Ohhhh, wait, right, you don't DO Phrags do you? :wink:

Still, there have been many advancements in the discovery and breeding of Paphs as well, in the last 17 years, some of which I believe are also mentioned in your book. I'm sure those here w/ 2 decades of experience more than I can speak to them.

The more and longer we all grow, the more we all learn and grow ourselves, with much assistance from all the other growers out there, and from ourselves within!*


*To my felllow forumites. It may seem as though I am calling Lance out on some of these issues. I am truly just curious! I'm not just trying to be a bitch. As a moderator of this forum, I try to be fair and relatively objective. However, I am also really new to growing and I am trying to learn and invite discussion on these issues which we all have had at some point in the recent or distant past, or will have in the recent or distant future; I hope to further my knowledge and that of any other relative newbie who might join. I find all of this so interesting as I add it to my pile of information to sort through, and I hope others will also.. I *sincerely* do hope others weigh in on these topics in a constructive way, as that is what was hoped for with the design of this forum of discussion..

Lance,

I love your book and have told you so before, but I think the question that would help me (and maybe Paphgirl) understand where your current experience comes from is:

How are you currently able to conduct observations on a daily basis when you no longer grow yourself?

Or is your book mostly based on your experiences from 17+ years ago? I did notice the 1st edition is older than that, so that would make sense.

Thanks,

What an interesting thread.....
First, bragging is natural when you raise such exquisite natural jewels be they flowers, fish, amphibians, or what have you. When you have good success doing something, naturally you believe others should take you seriously. And when you've studied something and devoted your time to something you naturally develop a larger ego about it. Sometimes I worry that I am sounding too ego driven, as it is hard to tell when someone is typing rather than talking how they mean for it to sound. Sounding too much like an authority figure in a field where we are all amatuers no matter how long we have spent with these wonderful plants can make you push other peoples buttons unwittingly.

I feel the advise was good, I have used sand and chopped sheet moss in my mixes before, but that maybe it sounded as though you were pushing what is the end all best. And as we all know, different mixes are needed for different conditions. IMHO, aeroponics would be the "magic mix" that was the best, but I would try to stay very humble and very eager to hear as many other opinions as I could secure.

Being published does not make you an expert and neither does growing for 30 straight years without failure. The wisest best growers will usually disagree when you try to call them experts as no one person can be the "god" of something that is always open to interpretation. Taxonomists can sound very opinionated and try to convince you that they are right, yet most of them disagree, so do the research and decide what you like. No one person is more correct than anyone else in a hobby like this, as there are more than one correct answers. But, we also shoudn't talk down to someone just because we think they are trying to talk down to us. Just because a grower hasn't grown in a long time doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about...and just because someone just started growing doesn't mean they don't observe and make judgments on these observations that are any less important than someones observations that has been studying them for years.

No one should read one book and think they have all they need to know. Read every book you can, surf the net, and talk to other growers. Most importantly, watch your plants, and always be willing to hear new ideas. This is not an exact science, and we should all report our ideas and experiments so that others may learn from them. Heck I've got a Phrag. richteri that's been growing in a vase of water for two years now and seems happy, but I surely wouldn't recommend this as the way to grow them. Sorry for the long ranty post...I just couldn't help myself.
Jon

ego and arrogance are synonymous with the genus. always remember that. I have yet to meet a real "hardcore" paph grower who doesn't have a big head. and some who don't have the credibility still act like they do. :roll:

the above has no real bearing on this present thread, which I have little opinion on, other than that I do not believe in magic mixes, but I do believe some mixes are better to start off with than others, and some may be more "tolerant" when it comes to ancillary conditions.

just a personal reflection on the genus and the psychopathology of its fanciers. play nice kiddies.

Lance is right....the basics of orchid growing haven't changed in 17 years...However, the materials we use have changed. 17 years ago I could buy any bag of bark and trust it...I'd pot up a paph and it would last in that mix for an easy 2 years. Now, to get decent quality bark, you have to search for it...keeping track of the brands (Sequioa is closest to what I used to use...Rexius nearly destroyed my whole collection...) The lousy quality of bark is why I switched to coconut husk chips...Now I am back to the kind of mix that used to work for my paphs...but if only I could get the kind of spongerock I used to get! Take care, Eric

Jon -
Thank you!
What you said was most eloquent.

Eric - the more recent use of CHC as a medium is one of the things that prompted me to ask this question....

As a point of interest, I will attempt to clarify what I thought was simple text from my original post in this thread:

Couscous…my experiences are from years ago. I can't understand why you think that makes them invalid.

Jon…My confidence in what I know is unshakeable. You can call it ‘ego’ if you need to do so, but it is still just plain confidence. You really shouldn’t call it bragging if it is truthful, or do you disagree? If you ‘feel’ I sound too much like an authority…..I am. My book didn’t make me one, people who bought it did. I am still as humble as I ever was; you don’t know me, but people who meet me tell me so. I do not ‘talk down’ to anyone……..and never have.

Eric….Either your memory is bad, or you are attempting to rewrite history. Much fir bark was terrible 17 years ago. In my first book, written in 1984, I cautioned about the bad quality of fir bark, and I repeated it again in my 2nd edition. Of course materials have changed, and they will keep changing……as they have always changed. Nothing is new! But, my mix works, and it ALWAYS will….even with inferior grade fir bark.

Paphgirl….if you already knew why I no longer grow orchids, what did you possibly hope to gain when you asked me the second time? I attempted to respond to your questions in a light-hearted manner, instead, you only became more angry. When that happens, your rhetoric becomes incomprehensible. I can’t help you to control yourself, but I do request that you please return my book to me; I will give you a full refund. It’s very obvious you are unhappy, or maybe displeased with the advice I give, so I would rather it go to someone who can learn from it, which is the reason why I wrote it. You can contact me by E-mail.

Overall, it seems that I have made a mistake in posting my comments on this forum. What I presumed would be helpful and informative to readers here, has been misunderstood by nearly everyone of you who has posted on this thread.

My post was meant to explain the necessary conditions under which the mix I described should be utilized. It is obvious to me that none of you have taken the time to read, or understand the entire context of what I wrote.

This is unfortunate.

Paphgirl….if you already knew why I no longer grow orchids, what did you possibly hope to gain when you asked me the second time? I attempted to respond to your questions in a light-hearted manner, instead, you only became more angry. When that happens, your rhetoric becomes incomprehensible. I can’t help you to control yourself, but I do request that you please return my book to me; I will give you a full refund. It’s very obvious you are unhappy, or maybe displeased with the advice I give, so I would rather it go to someone who can learn from it, which is the reason why I wrote it. You can contact me by E-mail.

Angry? Oh no, not at all! Gosh, I am just curious!
Encouraging discussion on a subject that clearly others have wondered about, yes! As mentioned in a previous post, I take your book into consideration along with all of the other knowledge I have learned. A refund? LOL!! I don't want a refund, not at all. I do however, wish to understand you better, Lance. That's why I asked. Personally, if it were a rust problem, I'd move, and start growing slippers elsewhere. I'm addicted! I suppose I'm just surprised, that clearly loving these plants as you do, you never went back to them, and I think theories and ideas, and lord knows breeding, has changed since you stopped growing.

Anyway, I apologize if I offended you, it was not on purpose, I was truly just curious. I ask questions so I can learn more. :D

Lance,

I did not mean to imply that your experience was invalid because it was from 17 years ago. I agree that Paphs haven't changed in the past 20 years, and neither have their needs.
What I was trying to get at was to maybe have you share what you were doing nowadays to keep current as an expert. I know you had mentioned a research project (mychorrizae, I think) and I am sure you travel to observe paphs in their natural environment.
I apologize if it came off sounding like an attack on your credibility, but my goal was quite the opposite.
I remain a big fan of your book.

So Lance.

How long is your hair?

Good grief...I don't have time to check out the site for a bit and I miss this!! :poke:

....the ongoing saga...too funny!!!

I think we all know different mixes work for different situations. I'd kill stuff in that mix unless I adjusted conditions to fit it. I'd guess it works very well in warmer climates like So. CA and FL.

So, was gonna start a post on "book reviews" sometime. Love the book! And, looking forward to the next book. I'm sure it'll be better than that horrible Orchid Thief book/movie! Now, Orchid Fever was pretty good. Sounds like it'll be more like that...

Just remember sarcasm doesn't come across well written... :roll: Too bad for me because I love it! :twisted: Group hug!! :therethere:

Just remember sarcasm doesn't come across well written... :roll: Too bad for me because I love it! :twisted: Group hug!! :therethere:

I love sarcasm too, and I know that is an issue, sometimes I cannot resist. Unfortunately tone in general is easy to interpret incorrectly online. I've been at fault for finding people too brisque, or seemingly arrogant. Most of the time, I think it is pretty easy to make one's sarcasm known w/ motis, but harder to be of sure some of the other uncertainties in our everyday online conversation.