Hi, I was just wanting to know what you all use for potting media in your Paph's?

I have recently had to repot two of mine as the bark mix they came in was really broken down. I am honestly not a big fan of bark and decided to try perlite and moss combo. A good friend of mine grows all her orchids in this mix and just swears by it.

Just curious... :-dance:

I use regular bark/stone mix and my plants love it!

Hi luvpaphs,

Welcome aboard! I see you just joined- me too about 2 weeks ago.

I make my potting mix- lets me regulate what portions go in and that is important depending on the plants and their age.

For seedlings, which is mostly what I handle since I buy flasks and then sell most of the plants in 3-4 inch pots, I use a mix of fine fir bark, x-fine charcoal, perlite and peat moss.

As times goes by, I have tended to put more and more bark in the mix to retain moisture. I go easy on the peat since it can keep things too wet down below as it gradually washes to the base of the potting mix.

Generally, I will do 50-60% bark now, 20%-25% charcoal, 10-20% perlite and the balance peat moss. I don't measure anymore- do it all by "feel"- so it is hard to give exact parameters.

2 years ago when I really got started in a big way with Paph flasks, I was doing 40% bark, 40% charcoal, 15% perlite and 5% peat or Pro-Mix.

I like to have lots of drainage in my pots- 50% usually. Growing indoors where it is warm and stable I tend to see my plants grow very quickly- and so I repot about every 6 months. Also, being under grow lights, the mix tends to dry much faster than it would if the plants were outdoors, in windows or in a greenhouse environment.

Therefore I have a much easier time with bark than many people. It never has a change to get soaking wet and stay that way- and I replace the potting medium well before it can decompose.

For larger plants, I use larger grade bark and charcoal and far less bark- closer to the 40% ratio I used to use in my seedling mix. I will usually little, if any, peat moss in such a mix.

Sometimes I deal with plants, like Paph. sanderianum, that I have found like to stay a bit moister than others. So I use more bark and maybe a bit more peat.

When I want plants to dry faster (older plants in larger pots usually), then I will cut way back on the bark and peat.

Drainage is plastic peanuts- 50% layer most of the time.

Hope this helps. Sorry for saying so much, but I think it important to tell you the full story as my great success with bark is largely dependent on how I pot my plants and where I grow them.

FWIW, most of the commercial growers I know who are what I would call serious Paphiopedilum breeders are using coconut instead of bark these days- and then adding some measure of perlite, charcoal and a bit of something like peat or Pro-Mix to help promote moisture retention.

I used medium coconut husk chips. Coconut husk chips grows everything very well for me. If you want to grow mushrooms use bark mixes - use coconut chips for orchids. The best article I have found on using this medium is at www.ladyslipper.com. On the home page scroll down past the Morgan horses and all the other stuff and go to the paph reading room. I learned a lot from this web site and recomend it highly.

Hi,

personaly i use cube of Rock wool with an organic feeding.

What is moss combo ??????? :shock:

Thanks.

What is moss combo ??????? :shock:
Thanks.

I think this just means a combination of sphagnum moss and perlite.

My primary mix is CHC, diatomite, perlite, and characoal. My plants seem to like it. When I first started I got something labelled "paph mix" which was larger bark and sphag, but I'm trying to get all remaining plants switched out of that, it does seem to break down quickly.

For seedlings, I use a small bark mix w/ perlite and charcoal.

I usually switch all of my plants to s/h. The trick is to make the switch when you see new growth.

2 Parts Small CHC
1 Part Chunky Perlite
1 Part Med Diatomite
1/2 Part Charcoal

I find that the slippers do much better in semi-hydro culture than in organic media.

I usually use straight PrimeAgra, although I have had discussions with folks suggesting that adding charcoal to it can help a plant that is reluctant to grow roots. Personally, I have seen no advantage to it.

I use medium coconut husk, #3 sponge rock, and #3 charcoal, in about a 2:1:1 ratio. For pretty much everything. I don't know if anybody has mentioned this, but wash the bejeezus out of your CHC before you use it. Even if it is supposed to be salt free.

I've considered straight medium coconut, but it scares me a little.

Sphagnum moss for cycnoches (need to repot those every year anyway), and plants without much in the way of roots.

I've started using some of Ray's semihydroponic stuff for phrags. I'd use more if he'd ever get back to me with a quote... :poke:

I'm agree with Ray, in hydroponic (Rock wool cube) the Paph became very beautifull. the leaf looks healthy and the roots are very strong.

Speaking of potting media....

Does anyone know of a source for that gelly stuff that comes in small perlite-like sizes and shapes and retains water? I think it might be useful for a couple of really wee seedlings I have.

It's not that stuff they pack SPAM in is it?

It's not that stuff they pack SPAM in is it?

Very funny...:poke:
Actually, I've never had SPAM, so I wouldn't know, but yes, it does look like little bits of gelatin. It was in the mix of my little tiny sanderianum....I was thinking about it, anyway. I have three wee babes that dry out very quickly, and thought it might help. However, I don't even know what it is called, so hard to search for.

Actually, it freaks me out just a bit, when I come across it. It is a little slimey - kinda like SPAM! :shock: (at least, so I think....)

Its not just left over bits and pieces of flasking agar is it?

I would probably add some chopped sphagnum for moisture retention in this case.

I don't remember what it is called but it looks like tiny pellets before you add water to it. It turns into clear gel when it comes in contact with water.

Its not just left over bits and pieces of flasking agar is it?


Gosh, it could be,that's the right consistancy, but it is pretty evenly mixed. I've had it in some older plants too, so think it may be more what Pete is thinking of. Perhaps I'll email (or include the question in the next email to) the vendor...

Has anyone tried this Aussie Gold stuff? What is it? Looks like fafard? Any one have horror or success stories?

I currently use CHC, aliflior, sponge rock, and a similar bark mix to the chc mix without the chc

Hi all,

Heather- the bigs of gel stuff sticking to seedlings could be flasking agar, but that should wash away with a few weeks of compotting. And while I am a major fan of the Antec notion of potting Paph in compot with agar attached, it should be noted not everyone makes their agar to suit that treatment.

I still pot Paphs from other vendors in agar, but I take most of it off since after a while it tends to dry and stick to the roots, causing all sorts of hassles- including plants that are very hard to separate without breaking roots when it comes time for single pots.


That aside, if you are talking about the stuff Peter referred to- I have played with it before and do not advise it. There are several products of similar type, and the ones I have seen do not recommend use for orchids. I tried it anyway and yes- it is no good for orchids lol.


As for Aussie Gold, I have never tried it. I have seen it and I frankly cannot see how this could ever be a suitable growing medium for Paphs. Seems it is geared to pep plants up quite nicely in the short term, but the mix itself is too dense to allow proper drying out in my view.

Here, I use mainly what we call 'ipa'. Its the outer skin of rice when it is milled. I use the following formula:

3 parts 'ipa'
1 or 2 parts finely shredded tree fern fiber
1 part perlite

Makes a very good mix. Ipa doesnt break down for a long time and so does the tree fern so it doesnt become waterlogged for a long time. Seem to go well with the local Paph multiflorals here as well as Barbata type paphs.

For Parvis and Brachys I use regular SH. Surprisingly my Paph Godefrayae seems to like it even if its roots stay wet all the time.

Its not just left over bits and pieces of flasking agar is it?


Gosh, it could be,that's the right consistancy, but it is pretty evenly mixed. I've had it in some older plants too, so think it may be more what Pete is thinking of. Perhaps I'll email (or include the question in the next email to) the vendor...

I think that is what a good friend of mine used to call 'horse boogers'. It is a polyacrylamide gel that you can buy. It comes as crystals, when you add water they swell up. It is then supposed to release the water slowly. You can buy them in the potting mix aisle at the Home Despot (or any garden center), I think. Some people use it as a soil conditioner for their garden. Mostly they are sold for houseplants, so you don't have to water as often. One trade name I remember is 'Terra-sorb'.

It comes in different sizes. I have a jar of the fairly small size at home. My buddy found the giant size (horse-booger size). We tried it in a few potting mixes. I don't think it was really a benefit. Plus it always looked like slugs were trying to climb out of the potting mix. Probably the biggest problem is that when the stuff is dry it is very small, and when wet very big. Imagine your potting mix doubling in size when you water, and you would quickly get an idea of why we stopped using this stuff.

Yes, I think I have also seen it at HD, so Heather if you want more of those gels, try HD.

I have, I think, only gotten it in plants from Windy Hill; seedlings. It makes the mix very spongy feeling. Anyway, when I repotted my sanderianum last night, I didn't want there to be much of a change in culture, so I reused the mix it was in, since it seemed happy.

I think I'll just leave things be. I just have these three teeny plants in 1.5" pots that are hard to keep from drying out very fast, now, let alone come summer.

I have, I think, only gotten it in plants from Windy Hill; seedlings. It makes the mix very spongy feeling. Anyway, when I repotted my sanderianum last night, I didn't want there to be much of a change in culture, so I reused the mix it was in, since it seemed happy.

I think I'll just leave things be. I just have these three teeny plants in 1.5" pots that are hard to keep from drying out very fast, now, let alone come summer.

Get a piece of carpet padding and a tray of some sort (a cafeteria tray works, if you can find one). Or those plastic sweater boxes. Put the carpet padding on the bottom of the tray. Water. Pour off any water that stands above the carpet padding. Put your little pots on top. Water wicks up into the little pots as they dry out.

You could use anything soft and reasonably absorbant (you can get kitchen sponges in big packages...). The only tricky bit is keeping the water level in your tray below the bottoms of your pots, otherwise things stay too wet.

Get a piece of carpet padding and a tray of some sort (a cafeteria tray works, if you can find one). Or those plastic sweater boxes. Put the carpet padding on the bottom of the tray. Water. Pour off any water that stands above the carpet padding. Put your little pots on top. Water wicks up into the little pots as they dry out.

You could use anything soft and reasonably absorbant (you can get kitchen sponges in big packages...). The only tricky bit is keeping the water level in your tray below the bottoms of your pots, otherwise things stay too wet.

That's an interesting idea. Reminded me of what I did when I went away in December for a week, I'd forgotten completely. I bought a shallow square rubbermaid food container, put the three pots inside, spaced so they didn't touch, and loosely placed moist sphagnum moss all around the pots so they were effectively surrounded. When I got home the sphag had dried out and the pots still had some moisture in them, not wet, but not bone dry either.

I still have allot of my pots sitting in trays of moss. Over time they can get kinda jungle like with live moss and ferns growing out of them too.

It's pretty wild the different ferns that spontaneuosly sprout from that Chilean moss that home depot sells.

There is some weird moss growing on top of my new roebellinii, it has little tendrils that look almost like fiddlehead ferns. I think it looks pretty neat.

I use small grade CHC, with loads of spongerock...increasing the amount when I cannot get the larger #4 size I prefer...also with a trace of charcoal and a few larger size CHC chips. Rootless or nearly rootless paphs get coco-fiber with smaller perllite. The exception is delanatii, which I find prefers a phrag type mix with bark instead of CHC, and some added NZ sphagnum. Take care, Eric

15% Sphagnum/CHC
80% Diatomite/Shale/EC
05% Cotton Hulls

This has been so interesting to see what everyone is using. Where I live we are quite limited to what we can get. Bark, Charcoal, Perlite, Moss That is about it. Hard to find Coconut.

I guess what works for one might now work for others too. Thanks for all the replies to my quesiton, I never thought there would be so many replies.

:-dance:

I started to use CHC for about one and a half year ago and I perform a trial including using a mix of 15% CHC as replacement of bark with "orchid stone" available here and another trial with 100% CHC.

No additional supplements were added during the trial and all paph were grown in transparent pots to observe root growth. Water used for watering was tap water with minimal salts content and a neutral pH value.


The result is that there was abundant root growth in 6 months and root growth was almost crazy! However, root tips started to greatly diminished after the first 6 months and almost 70% of the original roots died in a year. CHC did not show sign of declay after a year but there were some fungal growth signs in the medium. There was insinificant difference between the 2 mix in term of numbder of root growth and the time for root death.

I read what Antec introduced CHC in their homepage but there is no information about when to repot and what are to be added in the mix in the literature. I wonder the hugh differences between my trial and their results may due to pH value of the water we used which act as a buffering effect ... I am not pretty sure about it anyway ... Can somebody help or can explain why there was a big difference ...

Unfortunately I did not measure the change in pH value during the trial and no way I can tell the possible effect from the change in pH value.

I started to use CHC for about one and a half year ago and I perform a trial including using a mix of 15% CHC as replacement of bark with "orchid stone" available here and another trial with 100% CHC.

No additional supplements were added during the trial and all paph were grown in transparent pots to observe root growth. Water used for watering was tap water with minimal salts content and a neutral pH value.


Does that mean no fertilizer, as well? That might be a big problem...

The result is that there was abundant root growth in 6 months and root growth was almost crazy! However, root tips started to greatly diminished after the first 6 months and almost 70% of the original roots died in a year. CHC did not show sign of declay after a year but there were some fungal growth signs in the medium. There was insinificant difference between the 2 mix in term of numbder of root growth and the time for root death.

I read what Antec introduced CHC in their homepage but there is no information about when to repot and what are to be added in the mix in the literature. I wonder the hugh differences between my trial and their results may due to pH value of the water we used which act as a buffering effect ... I am not pretty sure about it anyway ... Can somebody help or can explain why there was a big difference ...

Unfortunately I did not measure the change in pH value during the trial and no way I can tell the possible effect from the change in pH value.

My experience is that two years is not good for my plants in a CHC mix. I use 2:1:1 (CHC:SpongeRoc:Charcoal). In the ideal world, I would repot all my paphs and phrags at least once a year. Slippers respond very well to repotting (as you observed).

Regardless of what mix I have used in the past (many many different kinds), 18 months is about as long as I can go without repotting. After that time, the plants start to decline. Of course that doesn't mean I always repot that frequently, sometimes I go several years between repotting some plants. But the plants always suffer, in that case.

Rob

I have been extremely happy with my current mix that was just an experiment a couple years back.

I use 4parts Scott's MetroMix with Coir, add 2parts Perlite or Spongerock and 1.5parts Charcoal. This is a good estimate of the proportions since I do it by eye and feel.
It ends up being very porous, even when just watered, and holds moisture evenly and dries evenly. It is easy to know when to water, since it turns light brown when dry and gets quite light. If plants are let dry out for a long time, some humid conditions are still present around the roots preventing bad dehydration. This has proven very beneficial when growing drier growing plants like Paph. druryi and Mexipediums. It also preforms well when constantly wet, and my Phrags love it and send roots everywhere.
I use this mix in combination with Rands Aircone Pots and rarely add drainage material...unless I am growing drier growing plants like mentioned above. It also breaks down slowly and plants have yet to show signs of unhealthy root growth when I repot them...usually after about a year. I also have a few "guinea pig" plants that haven't been repotted in roughly 2 and a half years that look quite healthy...but I did add dolomite to them once since peat gets acidic after a year or so. If you can find MetroMix with Coir, I strongly recommed trying this mix on at least one plant.

Jon

I use 4parts Scott's MetroMix with Coir, add 2parts Perlite or Spongerock and 1.5parts Charcoal. This is a good estimate of the proportions since I do it by eye and feel.
It ends up being very porous, even when just watered, and holds moisture evenly and dries evenly. It is easy to know when to water, since it turns light brown when dry and gets quite light. If plants are let dry out for a long time, some humid conditions are still present around the roots preventing bad dehydration. This has proven very beneficial when growing drier growing plants like Paph. druryi and Mexipediums. It also preforms well when constantly wet, and my Phrags love it and send roots everywhere.
I use this mix in combination with Rands Aircone Pots and rarely add drainage material...unless I am growing drier growing plants like mentioned above. It also breaks down slowly and plants have yet to show signs of unhealthy root growth when I repot them...usually after about a year. I also have a few "guinea pig" plants that haven't been repotted in roughly 2 and a half years that look quite healthy...but I did add dolomite to them once since peat gets acidic after a year or so. If you can find MetroMix with Coir, I strongly recommed trying this mix on at least one plant.

Jon

Too weird. Last night I just made up a batch that is remarkably similar to your recipe. Never used it before. I'm using the Scott's Coir on the recommendation of Dick Wells (Hilltop Orchids). I think his formula is 20 parts Scotts Coir, 8 parts seedling bark, 6 parts perlite, and 1-2 parts charcoal. I don't own any seedling bark... So I made my mix just like you did, Jon...

I'm reluctant to try it on my paphs, but I was going to repot all of my stupid phalaenopsis in it. Hopefully I'll get most of them done tonight. Hopefully I can sell, trade, or give most of the darn things away after I get them repotted (I inherited them with the greenhouse). Perhaps I'll try it on a few paphs, as well. I don't have aircone pots, just the standard SVD (Square Very Deep) ones. I think it should work, at least for 2.25 and 3.5" pots.

I do have three more unopened bags (the big ones) of Scotts Coir, and can make up more mix if anybody wants to try a hobby sized bag or two.

I am good friends with Dick. We started doing it about the same time...but I don't like the bark in the mix at all. Rotting bark is the worst thing you can have around paph roots IMO and it makes the mix not last as long. I use this mix on anything that isn't a Cattleya or Phalaenopsis-type Dendrobium. Dick uses it on these as well with great success. He is a great grower and one of the nicest people I know, and his advice is worth it's weight in gold.
I hope you enjoy the mix...I've been extremely impressed with it.
Jon

I am good friends with Dick. We started doing it about the same time...but I don't like the bark in the mix at all. Rotting bark is the worst thing you can have around paph roots IMO and it makes the mix not last as long. I use this mix on anything that isn't a Cattleya or Phalaenopsis-type Dendrobium. Dick uses it on these as well with great success. He is a great grower and one of the nicest people I know, and his advice is worth it's weight in gold.
I hope you enjoy the mix...I've been extremely impressed with it.
Jon

I'll ask him about the bark when I see him this weekend. I agree, he is a great guy, always helpful. Hasn't changed a bit in the last 15 years or so, either. I particularly like that he is more than happy to give business advice to little upstarts like me, too. Even though we are technically 'competition'.

I think I'll see him this weekend... I agree completely on the bark. I never understood why anybody would put it in a peat mix. It is perhaps OK in an open mix, but it would rot faster than I can kill a pleurothallid in a denser peat mix. A friend and I wrote an article about peat mixes for "Orchids" a long long time ago (back before it was "Orchids"). Some of the peat mixes had shredded bark in them (Fafard 3B). I never had as much luck with Fafard as with Promix, which had no bark.

Repotting with the metro-mix last night was a joy. Very easy to use. I put a couple paphs I didn't have much use for in the mix too, just to see. I still have 3/4 of a phal bench to go, though. Are you using styrofoam peanuts in the bottom of the pot? Dick used to do that when he was using Promix, I haven't bought a plant from him in the new mix to know.

Klehms used to grow paphs in a chunky peat based mix (I have the recipe, it is pretty easy to make). They always looked great, but only had a few little roots when taken out of the pot. Or at least the ones I bought did. This is largely way I've avoided peat mixes for my paphs. T

I moved all my plants out of Antec's CHC mix after 8 months. I use transparent pots and initially the root growth was good - lots of active growing tips. After 6 months the roots were still alive but there were no active growing tips on any plants.

I moved everything to 60% medium bark, 30% medium diatomite and 10% charcoal. So far so good.

FWIW - Frank Smith from Krull Smith spoke to the British Paph. Society last fall and he loves bark for paphs. Doesn't repot for 2 to 3 years and under Florida growing conditions you know it breaking down bigtime. I don't understand why paph roots would dislike broken down bark as long as you allow some drying out between waterings and you have other additives in the mix that don't breakdown i.e. diatomite, charcoal etc.

Heather you never had spam???? Guess you havn't been to Hawaii.
truthfully, you aren't missing out on anything!!

Heather you never had spam???? Guess you havn't been to Hawaii.
truthfully, you aren't missing out on anything!!

Nope, never even a taste (thank heavens!), nor of velveeta! I grew up in a house full of food snobs. I had escargot at a very early age, actually! :D

Heather you never had spam???? Guess you havn't been to Hawaii.
truthfully, you aren't missing out on anything!!

Nope, never even a taste (thank heavens!), nor of velveeta! I grew up in a house full of food snobs. I had escargot at a very early age, actually! :D

My daughter's first solid food was calamari...

Bark is a fine mix, but I had trouble with it early on and so am not a big fan of it to this day. My main problem was overwatering like every newbie, and that bark looked dry, was dry an inch down and so I would water again. Then the plant would wilt so I would repot it and it would have no roots....because the bottom half was wet the whole time and had rotted. I realize this is not the barks fault, but mine.

The metromix doesn't tend to do this. If the top inch is dry, the rest is dry enough to water again(unless you're growing druryi in it, I let it dry for two days). But make sure the top inch is dry! The color changes from light to dark, the weight of the pot changes dramatically. Early on people called these mixes "Mud" because they never let the mix dry out so it suffocated their roots.

I don't use drainage for paphs since I use aircone pots. The exception to this is druryi...I grow this sucker like a cactus and it gets styrofoam peanuts for the bottom third of the pot. Phalaenopsis on the other hand, I use plastic pots and put half a clay pot that just barely fits in the bottom for weight. Then I fill the bottom third with peanuts. This mix gets very light and Phals will topple a dry pot like nothing...so be sure to put some weight in the bottom if you use plastic pots.

I've never had spam either, but I liked Velveta growing up...they both make great catfish bait though...and I love fried catfish(the best part is still fighting a 30 pound catfish on your line trying to reel him in for a half hour).
Jon

By the way, this has been a really interesting discussion! Very cool hearing everyone's experiences over time and preferences based on those. Helpful to a new snob like me! :D

(I made the leap to 100 plants today! When I leap, I really leap!!)

Yay, Heather, on 100 plants!-I can only imagine what it's like looking after all of these- may they flourish & grow! (I have severe spring fever & I'm getting more plants, but I'm nowhere in your league)...Thistle

Yay, Heather, on 100 plants!-I can only imagine what it's like looking after all of these- may they flourish & grow! (I have severe spring fever & I'm getting more plants, but I'm nowhere in your league)...Thistle

Thank you Linda! Sometimes, I am a little overwhelmed, but it is my therapy, and I love all of my plants very much.
True, you are nowhere near....YET! :poke:

Part of the issues with bark deal with the quality. I did fine with bark until I got a big supply of Rexius. This stuff was the worst...rotted ultra fast and killed half my collection. On the other hand, good quality sequoia bark is fine.
Even old bark (if its seqoia) can last a long time if its well aerated by spongerock and the fertilizers aren't too acidic. It probably helps to add oyster shell to most bark mixes (for Ca loving paphs)...I still grow delanatii in bark...it definitely prefers bark to CCH...Take care, Eric

Very true Eric.
The rexius bark is what was the last straw for me. I do still like redwood/sequoia bark for my Dens and Catts in clay pots though. After seeing all Heather's photos, I think I'm going to try a few slippers in that CHC & pebbles mix. Don't be modest, they look GREAT!
Another important point I forgot, climate zones make a big difference. What works in Florida best is not what will work in Maine the best usually. Dry out times and moisture retaining times vary quite a bit between climate zones and will effect plants differently. The best answer is to usually find someone locally or on the same latitude with similar conditions(greenhouse, windowsill, etc.) and find out what they use.
Great discussion none-the-less.
Jon

This reminds me i need to go buy a bale of sphagnum and medium diatomite.