Now that my orchid collection is growing, I need to start doing more to control pests on my orchids, whether it be fungus or bugs. I usually just spray the individual plants and quarantine them until they are better, but I have too many now and I need to develop another course of action. I recently found a few with some scale and mealies; and I don't want to see them again. I am going to get some Enstar II on Bob in Albany's suggestion and try that; which leads me to my original request.....What do you do to control these beasties? I've been searching the net, but I thought this would be a better pace for info. I read somewhere that they used neem with Enstar II with some soap, but they did not give their proportions.

Thanks,
Lowell

what you want to target determines what you use.
it is important to rotate modes of action of pesticides to reduce the chance of the bug becoming resistant to specific pesticides. talus is a new igr (insect growth regulator) which is reported to take out mealies, scale and whitefly. i've used it for whitefly and it's great and very gentle.
systemic pesticides can be good, but if they are taken up by the roots instead of sprayed (different pesticides are applied differently) it can take a while for the roots to uptake the chemical and distribute it through the plant.
remember: pesticides are meant to kill. igr's can be poisonous. use personal protective equipment (PPE) as recommended on the label.
another route is to use beneficial insects. great info at www.rinconvitova.com
also, www.greenmethods.com
i like beneficials a lot. when they are used as directed, the results can be great.
i use lacewing larvae for longtailed mealybugs as well as a general predator. mealybug destroyers are good, but they are best when used with little (pea-sized) balls of organic cotton or synthetic batting as they lay their eggs in the cottony egg sacks of the citrus mealybug.

thanks, I've looked at both of those sites but was not sure what i should get....I grow in my basement and I have used some ladybugs from outside before, but they are all dead now

have you used any pesticides lately? some have a residual as long as six months.
do you grow under a light in the basement? if so, ladybug-types are are attracted to light and may have gone to the light, got burnt and no longer are.... if it's cool in the basement, though, they may just be dormant as you can store ladybugs in the fridge for up to three months without significant mortality. ladybugs aren't so great for most pest control situations, though as they are relatively slow to breed and it's the larvae that consume most of the pests. also, they're very flighty.
do you know if you have citrus mealybugs or long tailled mealybugs? citrus mealies will have cottony masses around as those are their egg sacks. long tailled ones will not have the cottony masses and they have a longer tail, about 1/3+ the size of their bodies.
with the scale, you have to determine if you have armoured scale or soft scale. i think that soft scale put off honeydew (sugary lookin' stuff; a way to say "scale poop" in polite company...), though i may be wrong.
then go to rincon, check under the pest index for what you've got. let me know if you have any questions.

I have soft scale and citrus mealies....your recommendation is the lacewing with a general predator? which general predator do you sue?

And I do have HID lights 1,000w HPS and 1,000w MH.

lacewings are good and are the ones i use most frequently. i like the larvae in hexcells as i can put them where i want them to be. eggs might be fine for you, but i have varmits which will eat them. lacewing larva start off small, as one might guess, and get into most of the nooks and crannies.
the only thing is that they can bite and it can hurt. if you poke around in the plants a lot, you may want something different.
parasitiods are good, too. (the difference between a parasite and a parasitiod is that parasites don't kill their hosts where as parasitiods do. some places make that distinction, others don't)
i would call them and ask how things do under lights as my only experience with them is in a greenhouse.
it may be to your benefit to find a beneficial insect supplier in your area as shipping is done either overnight (for most) or second day and can be pricey.
it is imperative to follow the instructions for the release of the beneficials.

I am quoting from the latest issue of the Sliipper Orchid Alliance Newsletter, in an article from Nick Tannaci of Watsonville, CA:
Pesticides -- I don't use ANY bactericides or fungicides on the group (Brachys and Parvis). Brachys are notorious for developing rots, and to build disease-resistance into this breeding line we need to refrain from the constant use of these pesticides. Also, these orchids are in the most primitive group. They are not that high above a fungus or bacteria on the evoloutionary ladder, so those chemicals can be deleterious to their health, especially the systemic types (emphasis mine) which are absorbed by the plants.

one last thing
mealybugs are a type of scale (or at least in the same family)

malathion - a gift from on high

It smells nasty and shouldn't be overapplied, but it does the trick for me.

--Stephen

I use Bayer Rose/Flower. It's a 30 day systemic. It melts mealy and aphid and does a great job on scale(usually applied twice). Doesn't work on mite though. Also be aware that it can stain fabrics.

The use of biological control in a greenhouse or especially in a light set-up is the hard way to do the job and in my hands (biology major with lots of entomology training) it never worked. Also, I have to disagree with the statement that Paphs are only slightly above the fungi and bacteria on the evolutionary scale. Orchids in general are monocot flowering plants and as such are among the most highly evolved of plants.
Very few things that you could use would do the job as well as Enstar or another IGR. I have had excellent results from using it. I combine it with Merit insecticide and Tetrasan miticide for a completely pest (insect) free greenhouse. I would be careful using some of the older insecticides and Malathion has no residual at all. If you use liquid Malathion you risk damage to your plants from the Petroleum distillate carrier. The beauty of Merit, Tetrasan and Enstar is that they are used in tiny amounts compared to other insecticides and miticides and are relatively less dangerous than many of the older chemical that were widely used. Of course, great care should be taken with all of these products and the label directions followed closely. If I were growing indoors under lights i would prefer to use Enstar 11 or any of the newer insect grow regulators.
Dean Stock

I have to admit that after much hope and promise, I am disappointed with the mealybug destroyers and the lacewings in my greenhouse. I know that they would go after the mealies when they were there, but they didn't stick around very long.

I'm getting pretty good control with the Ultrafine oil at present, but if I loose control with that I'm trying Enstar.

I haven't had too big a problem with any one pest. I have had a couple of incidents with mealies (long tailed). But I eventually realized that a bush in my front yard was just covered with them, and after I took care of that infestation I haven't had a problem. I used the ortho systemic that you can buy at HD or Lowes. Previously I used Orthenex, but that became expensive. One can is $6 and it only covers about 10 plants when you count the reapplications. The Ortho systemic is much cheaper because you dilute it. I use a pump sprayer for the orchids, and a hose sprayer for my roses and other yard plants. It has worked for me on the armored scale also. I have used the Bayer rose/flower systemic on my roses and it works awesome, but it contains a fertilizer and comes in pellet form, so I haven't tried it on the orchids. I think there is another variety that is liquid.

Most of my orchids outside (and a few inside) have colonies of jumping spiders that I believe are keeping the pests off. I ony spray a plant if I see a bad bug because I really like my cute little spiders.

Thanks so far, I was really close to trying the benefical bugs. but I think I am going to try the Enstar II. I'm not sure about the insecticides yet...I don't know anything about Merit and I've seen on the net about others using Mavrik Aquaflow....I think it is made by the same company that makes Enstar.

More discussion is welcome......

beneficials can be tough to use and they are a slower method.
if enstar is compatible with beneficials, you may want to consider introducing some parasitic wasps for scale and mealies after spraying in case any are places you missed with the spray.

...Also, I have to disagree with the statement that Paphs are only slightly above the fungi and bacteria on the evolutionary scale. Orchids in general are monocot flowering plants and as such are among the most highly evolved of plants....
Dean Stock

I was hoping someone would take issue with that statement. I do not have a science background, but it seemed incorrect when I read it in the article.

...Also, I have to disagree with the statement that Paphs are only slightly above the fungi and bacteria on the evolutionary scale. Orchids in general are monocot flowering plants and as such are among the most highly evolved of plants....
Dean Stock

I was hoping someone would take issue with that statement. I do not have a science background, but it seemed incorrect when I read it in the article.

As a scientist I do have an issue when taxonomy/systematics is used to infer superiority or inferiority of an organism. Orchids may be more "highly" evolved, but there are physiological things that fungi can do that most other plants cannot do. Also it seems that wild orchids are dependent on fungi for reproduction of their own species, so who's more highly evolved in this case?. So my attitude is that all species are equally perfect for the role they play in the ecosystem.

Hi Rick, Your objection to the term "highly evolved" is well taken in the context you put it in. Probably a poor choice on my part but as an "Evolutionay Biologist" the terms that I would prefer to use would make little sense on this forum. The point that I tried to make is that Paphs are orchids and not that far removed from other orchids----so why would their treatment be that different.
Dean Stock

I agree with you on your context.


The evolutionary (and most physiological) differences between brachys / parvis compared to other slippers is negligable compared to the difference between slippers and fungi.

I think it may be a good idea to select for disease resistant strains of brachys, and use disease to cull out the non resistant individuals, but in the meantime, I will do what it takes to keep mine going too.

I combine it with Merit insecticide and Tetrasan miticide for a completely pest (insect) free greenhouse. Dean Stock

Dean,

Where do you obtain the Enstar II, Merit and Tetrasan and any idea of the costs?

thanks

Hi Peter. I purchased them from Hummert International. There may be better sources of Merit. Hummert's Merit is in the form of packets to be used all at once. I simpley put the packet inside a plastic bag and slit it with a blade to extract what I need. I do not remember the prices but since you use so little of it you only have to buy it once for enough to last for years.
Dean Stock

Hey Lowell,
I'll try to help since you have the same mealies and scale I have(probably distant cousins). In all my years growing, I have decided they cannot be completely eliminated, so I just do my best to keep their numbers as low as possible. I have done much experimenting with neem and other non-pesticidal remedies and will share my personal experience(only my results, not to be used as a rule).

Most of my torture(experiments) are with mealy bugs, and you would be amazed how adaptive they are. I used tweezers to dip them into different solutions to see if it killed them. Rubbing alcohol did not kill them, even with repeated dippings, same with diced habenaro peppers soaked in it. Neem oil mixed per directions did not kill them either nor did 1 tbsp of dish soap per 1 gallon of water. All I did was mix these up and dip the bugs into them for a minute and pull them out and put them on a piece of paper and see how they acted afterwards. All lived for days afterward, even after repeated dippings. Many of these are reccomended for indoor growers, but I have yet to see a mealy bug in person die from them.(again, just my observations and not the rule)

As for Pesticides I have used.

Malathion: about 70% of mealies directly sprayed died within days, and only about 50% of scale died. Those that didn't die seemed unaffected after the next spraying and the spraying after that. It kept numbers down but did not eliminate them by any means. A mediocre percentage are killed by each spraying there after, but never all of them...and Malathion is detrimental to certain plants. I sprayed an old Jade Plant with it and the plant died a slow agonizing death from it...DO NOT USE IT ON CRASSULAS and certain other genera!

Diazinon: about 80% of mealies and 70% of scale died within days. With repeated spraying numbers dwindled quite low, but still not completely gone. Not nearly as many seem resistant to it as with Malathion, but some still survive only to reappear a month later. I have not had any plants react badly to it, but it has been removed for sale so it isn't as easy to come by.

Systemics: work great for about a month or two, but they keep coming back after a while. Never had a problem with it hurting plants, but again they haven't eliminated the problem. Still experimenting with a couple plants, so I can't give a complete answer for a few months...but am not convinced as of now for scale. Mealies "seem" dead, but they reappear out of nowhere sometimes it seems.

Heavy duty stuff: so far only have Chlordane to work with, and it KILLS mealy bugs on contact(dipping) but not 100% when used as a spray. Scale are a little more resistant to it, but takes much longer for them to reappear. Supposedly this stuff is pretty dangerous to use and was banned long ago, but I have an old gallon of it and in the name of science had to try it. It can burn plants, so I use at half strength and wear gloves and a chemical filtering respirator from work and spray outside only. I don't reccomend using this stuff unless you are just experimenting, and then only with caution. I wouldn't dare spray my collection down with this stuff unless every plant was completely infested with bugs and this was my last resort before trashing them.

So, personally if you have time here is what I would reccomend. First, take the infested plant and take it to the sink. Scrub all leaves with warm water and rinse the plant a couple times until you see no pests. Let it drip dry, then spray with desired pesticide(for me, Diazinon). Keep VERY close inspections on this plant weekly and at the first signs of pest reappearance, repeat.

I wish there was an easy answer, but I have not found one I could prove in my own experiments...even with stuff that was banned years ago. The most important things to have are keen eyes and motivation to physically remove pests at the first sight.

Jon

Thanks for all of the replies......

I did buy some Merit (Pumpkinseed.com) and Enstar II (Hummert). They should be here this week. I really wish the benifical bugs would be more effective.

Jon, I sure hope I can get rid of all of them, I don't want any of my babies to die.

So when everyone uses these chemicals, what are you wearing? gloves? mask?

each pesticide will have, on its label, the appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE), i.e. what to wear to increase the sprayer's or chemical mixer's safety
it will also have the re-entry interval (REI) which is the time, after the chemical is sprayed that it is safe to re-enter the area without the appropriate PPE


beneficials can be very effective. they're just a lot slower. also, some re-application of bugs is needed....

Thanks for all of the replies......

I did buy some Merit (Pumpkinseed.com) and Enstar II (Hummert). They should be here this week. I really wish the benifical bugs would be more effective.

Jon, I sure hope I can get rid of all of them, I don't want any of my babies to die.

So when everyone uses these chemicals, what are you wearing? gloves? mask?

I goofed in my earlier post....I bought Merit from Pumpkinsupply.com