If I have a plant with a bacterial infection, how isolated should it be?
Should it be in a room with NO other plants? Or can it be across the room from the others?

I'm trying to dry it out and have a fan running in the room so there is a light breeze in its' direction, but I am worried that it could spread to other plants in the room - would having a fan blowing in the room with the infected plant and other plants increase the risk of spreading the bacteria to other plants? Or are the precautions I should take more along the lines of making sure to sterlize any cutting tools and washing my hands, and keeping the plant from touching any other plant to minimize the risk of spreading?

Sorry for such a dumb question - I am probably over-anxious but since I keep wondering I thought I'd better ask. There aren't many rooms left in my house w/ no plants that actually get some sunshine, but I want to be sure I am isolating this adequately. Thanks!

Some people have had major epidemics that wiped out entire greenhouses, but my personal experience is that I only need a foot or so of space. I have recently been using the powdered root of goldenseal lately with very good results. Goldenseal is a native plant generally found in well established woods. The root has well documented antibiotic properties. Added as a powder, it coagulates at the infection site, almost producing a scab. This may help reduce disease spread.

Goldenseal is fairly rare these days, but I think you might be able to get some at a good herbal health store.

I would still do whatever appropriate surgery and disenfection is needed for your case.

Goldenseal huh? I'll definitely have to try it.

I've also used MelaFix, which is intended for aquarium use, but have found it very effective. It is basically melaluca extract which is a natural anti-bacterial as well. They also make a PimaFix I will have to try, which is a fungicide made from a tree I can't recall. I have seen the MelaFix work miracles in aquarium fish that were "incurable" with things like dropsy, and wasn't too surprised how well it worked on plants.

Like Rick said, if I keep the plants at least a foot away(and don't use the same cutting tools on other plants!) it doesn't spread to them.

Jon

Okay, thanks guys!
I had visions of the fan blowing germs around to all my plants. :lol:
I didn't really think that was possible, but seeing as I couldn't stop thinking about it I figured I'd better speak up.

FWIW - Priority shipping is running LATE already due to the holiday rush. My plant took 4 full days for a trip that should have taken two, and Marcus said a plant of his was a day late this week.
So, be forwarned.

Could you show us a picture of your plant ?

I would Isolate the plant and then powder the diseased area with cinnamon, It does not always work but only sometimes.

Hi Uri,
Thanks, yes, that's what I've done.
Here's a photo from today, it has worsened since yesterday, although everything has dried out a bit, due to the cinnamon (I was not shy with the cinnamon.) The grower and I are hoping for the best. :(

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1219/img00020lf.jpg

Looks bad!

I'll cross finger for an last minute offshot

Yeah, I know, huh? I was optimistic last night, but 24 hrs. later, not so much. It's a real bummer.
I'm very sad because otherwise it is a perfectly lovely, healthy, well grown plant. :?

I think the one thing to be careful of is don't put the plant so close to your other plants that, when watering, water can splash from bad plant to good plant. You know it does a very good job of jumping at least a foot.

Oh, this plant is well across the room from any other, but in a place where it will get some sun and good air flow. Suffice it to say, I am being quite anal about washing up after touching (going so far as to wipe camera w/ lysol post photo-sessions.)

Have you tried spraying the infected areas with hydrogen peroxide? Seems to work fairly well with some kinds of bacterial rot. Be sure to dry out the area well after it's been sprayed.

Have you tried spraying the infected areas with hydrogen peroxide? Seems to work fairly well with some kinds of bacterial rot. Be sure to dry out the area well after it's been sprayed.

That came up at my society meeting today also, I'm thinking of doing it tomorrow, but I didn't want to risk it late in the day (also following the recommendations of the person it came from, so don't want to stray too far from that.) Will see how it is progressing (or not) in the morning.

Realistically, the bacteria are already on every surface of every plant you own, like mold and fungal spores and all those other little microbes. But luckily they are living things and cannot grow unless given proper conditions. So I wouldn't worry about spreading the germs, they're already there. As such, the best course of action would be preventative measures, removal of infected areas where possible, and dryness...with bacteriacides or cinnamon usually only necessary for bad cases or to aid drying.

Heather, it looks like the crown took a good hit...hopefully it didn't go too deep. If it did, it should produce offsets if the rest of the plant is healthy(which it definitely appears to be). Just make sure to keep it dry, the dead tissue grows bacteria much faster than the living tissue of the leaves.

Good Luck!

Jon

Thanks Jon, especially regarding the issue of bacterial spreading. That's what I was worried about, but of course your explanation makes sense. As I said to Rick yesterday on another subject, I really could use a rudimentary Chem. course, and now also a Bio course!

One of the issues I have w/ the peroxide idea is the fact that it is WET and I've spent the last 36 hours trying to dry out the crown. I've not used that method before and I am a little nervous about being able to dry it out again accordingly, even if it does stop the rot.

There IS a new start on the plant. :)
The other good news is that it came from an impeccable grower and we're staying in touch and up front about the situation. Neither of us are particularly happy with the USPS, I'll tell ya!
I have learned a valuable lesson about how to ship (or not) at this time of year. Ironically, the weather was really quite warm this week, and I'm sure everything would have been fine had the USPS gotten the plant to me in a timely fashion! :mad:

Jon
I've also played around with Tea-tree oil which is a concentrate from the melaluca plant. I think it has potential, but I've had problems coming up with a good dilution of it. Full strength is definitely too much and kills plant tissue, and at weaker strength I have to reapply it too many times to keep up. Maybe the aquarium version is the way to go.

Its too early to tell for sure at this point, but the goldenseal also looks like it might encourage cell growth as well as stopping the bacteria.

My two cents - I think whenever a bacterial infection like this one is discovered at this location on a plant, the first course of action is to remove all the infected tissue through radical surgery-immediately. In this case it will not leave much of the plant remaining. IMHO the only chance you have is if the plant has a decent root system and can put up a new growth from the base of the remaining plant. Leaving any infected tissue is drastically reducing your chances of saving this plant. If you can bring yourself to do this then keep the plant relatively dry and don't give it any fertilizer until you see new growth appearing.

After surgery spray the remaining 'stump' and drench the potting medium with a solution of neem oil. Then liberally dust the plant with neem powder (available in capsule form from health food stores).

Don't be concerned about removing entire green leaves if the base of them have evidence of infection. Any nutrients that are produced by these leaves will not be available to the plant due to the location of the bacterial infection ( in this specific case ) blocking their movement into the growing area of the plant.

If you prepare a thin paste of Kocide (copper based) and put it in the crown now you might have better luck getting the plant to grow new shoots without further rot. Works well on Phals. I use a solution of Physan (tablespoon/gal) and 1 teaspoon/gal of Kocide for hitting anything that looks like it is getting out of hand. As others have said, the bacteria and molds are already there. Good culture is the best bet so keep that air moving and don't water the crown of the plant.
Dean Stock

Thanks -
progression has slowed.
Will confer w/ grower on what to do next after sending photos today. Let's just say
that technically it's still his plant, so I'm going to follow his advice. Were it my plant I'd probably have done some surgery by now, but he asked me to hold off.

Keeping the air moving!
~Heather

I have had more than my share of bacterial rots, but it has always been an individual thing. No epidemics or waves of infected plants. I don't go out of the way to isolate infected plants. I cut off the infected parts (when possible), don't let other plants touch the cut edges or get water off of them. When repotting, I isolate their soaking in RD-20 away from other plants, and I wash my hands after touching them....but I don't keep them away from other plants (unless they are so far gone that they are just wasting space), and have never seen an infected plant pass on the problem to another. There is a streptomycin spray available for fireblight (an Erwinia disease of trees) but I don't use it, even though I have a bottle of it...cinnamon is probably the most practical for cut edges...I doubt that it's truly antibacterial, but it drys and seals the cut edges of a leaf. Take care, Eric

Hi Eric and others, Cinnamon does have good bactericidal properties. Tests on petri plates of common orchid bacteria such as Pseudomonas, etc., and several fungi proved that cinnamon powder and cinamon oil are very effective. My tests showed that they were as effective as Gentamycin sulfate and other commonly used preparations. Cinnamon is more toxic to plants grown in sterile media of various sorts but is relatively non-toxic when applied to stems and leaf surfaces. I was curious about it so I tested it in the lab several years ago.
Dean Stock

Well, cinnamon seems to have arrested the surge of rot on this plant.
However, the grower is replacing.

I cannot emphasize enough at this time of year, watch your PO shipments.
This was a classic case of something being in a box, damp, with no airflow, longer than expected.