Let's have some fun! I'm looking to use Paph Little by Little 'War Eagle' HCC/AOS for breeding more complex mini's and would like to invite forum members to to make suggestions on possible crosses. Later, perhaps we can post a poll and vote for some of the possibilities. I plan on using the plant as the pod parent for one cross and as the pollen parent for up to four crosses.

Things that I see that could be improved in Paph Little by Little:
1. Increase height of flower stem
2. Perhaps increase width and roundness of petals
3. Further shrink the size of the foliage. Not a major consideration
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/paphreek/PaphLittlebyLittlemypic.jpg

Here's a few suggestions already submitted:
Cross it to Paph (exul x Tyke). Mentioned by Couscous

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/paphreek/PaphexulxTyke2.jpg

Analysis: On the positive side, exul x Tyke has a much taller stem and a similar dorsal with a nice white rim.


Cross it to fairrieanum. Submitted by 'The Brain'

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/paphreek/Paphfairrieanumbettercolor.jpg

Analysis: Not sure what the result of this cross would be, only that WE MUST TAKE OVER THE WORLD! :evil:

Cross it to Paph Bell Ringer Brocade. Submitted by me

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/paphreek/PaphBellRingerBrocade.jpg

Analysis: An older, smaller complex with a similar flower.


FOOD FOR THOUGHT: I have the following plants in flower or bud that could be used as pollen or pod parents
1. gratrixianum
2. sukhakulii
3. sukhakulii fma. aureum
4. primulinum
5. bellatulum
6. barbigerum
7. barbigerum x charlesworthii
8. Barbi-Doll
9. Miss Faith Hanbury 'The Princess' HCC/AOS
10. Any number of red complexes including: Orchilla 'Chilton, Red Beauty 'Bion', Porthos x Redstart, Via Luna Este 'China Doll', Winston Churchill.
11. Various green , gold and bronze complexes including Hellas 'Westonbirt" Danella 'Bronze', Gwenda Overett, Via Vulcan Verde 'Petticoat', Brown Glen 'Stonehenge', Via Avila Beach, Lalime 'Superba', Valime 'San Leandro'.
12. Various whites including: Snowbird 'Robin', Susan Tucker 'Lottie', Barbi's White Satin 'Barbara Ann', and Freckles 'Althea'
13. Just found: Varvara 'Penn Valley'( fairrieanum x Claire de Lune)
14. spicerianum
15. fowliei

Do not limit your ideas to these plants. If you have a favorite in bloom or bud, and think it would make a good cross, please add it to the suggestions. If picked, we can work out the details for sharing seedlings, then.

As suggestions are made, let's try to post pictures or links to pictures of the flower

I'm thinking P. niveum, which should accomplish all three goals you have suggested.

ross go with bellatulum!

THE BRAIN say: fairrieanum.... :) Well bellatulum would shrink the stem... Niveum could be interesting as it would keep theplant smaller, add a big white, and increase your stem, length...But then again fairrieanum would add a long stem, and add some color and enlarge the dorsal... I think. Barbigerum would be a neat idea also... Hhhmmmmm....

I'm thinking P. niveum, which should accomplish all three goals you have suggested.

Here's a picture of a niveum that I have pollen from at the moment.http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/paphreek/PaphniveumRainforestxCayuga.jpg

ross go with bellatulum!

I've got a new bellatulum in bud!

Hrmmm....I don't know a lot about this but I think niveum sounded nice, except for the shortening of the stem. Sorry Pinky (hehe) I think that faire would do some weird $#^& to the petals...don't know if I'd go for that one (okay, I give you permission to use the whacking w/ a fish moti on me, Tadd!)

So, I vote for bellatalum, so far. I think the spotting might be really wild! Love wild!! :twisted:

THE BRAIN say: fairrieanum.... :) Well bellatulum would shrink the stem... Niveum could be interesting as it would keep theplant smaller, add a big white, and increase your stem, length...But then again fairrieanum would add a long stem, and add some color and enlarge the dorsal... I think. Barbigerum would be a neat idea also... Hhhmmmmm....

I've got fairrieanum in low bud and a smaller growing barbigerum that just opened. I will post a picture of the barbigerum when I take a photo.

How about crossing with In-Charm Pearl? That should give you size and roundness. Not sure about stem length though as mine is pretty short...

I would go with Freckles. It is a loveley small spotted white complex and would make an interesting cross. My other choice would be barbigerum x charlesworthii, but not sure how short the stem is on that cross.

How about crossing with In-Charm Pearl? That should give you size and roundness. Not sure about stem length though as mine is pretty short...

Good idea. It should improve the roundness.Do you have a picture to post? Here's a picture of mine
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/paphreek/PaphConco-bellatulumxIn-CharmWhite.jpg

OK, I'll throw my two cents in. I have a Paph. Eagle Heart x Chocolate Shot with 2 buds. No photos yet, but here is a link to a photo from a vendor:

http://www.montclairorchids.com/html/paph_0160.htm

And, no, I did not pay that price for mine. Nothing near that. I got mine locally, at Woodsprite Orchids. I love that place! Only problem is I don't know how long it will take the buds to open up. (I *am* waiting anxiously for this one!) Be prepared for lots of photos when this opens!!! :shock:

Otherwise, I like the idea of crossing it with Bell Ringer Brocade.

I keep changing my mind. Perhaps exul x Tyke would be the best cross. :confused:

This was fun!

Thanks

I would go with Freckles. It is a loveley small spotted white complex and would make an interesting cross. My other choice would be barbigerum x charlesworthii, but not sure how short the stem is on that cross.

the barbigerum x charlesworthii stem is nice and long
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/paphreek/Paphcharlesworthiixbarbigerum.jpg

Freckles would be interesting, too. I don't have pictures of the 'Althea' or 'Show Stopper' clones because this is the first bloomings of both for me. Here's links to other Freckles clones so you can get an idea of what the ones I have might look like.
http://www.montclairorchids.com/html/paph_0153.htm
http://www.montclairorchids.com/html/paph_0087.htm

Hrmmm....I don't know a lot about this but I think niveum sounded nice, except for the shortening of the stem. Sorry Pinky (hehe) I think that faire would do some weird $#^& to the petals...don't know if I'd go for that one (okay, I give you permission to use the whacking w/ a fish moti on me, Tadd!)

So, I vote for bellatalum, so far. I think the spotting might be really wild! Love wild!! :twisted:

Actually, the niveum stem is much taller than L b L, so it would be an improvement.
With the fairrieanums only being in low bud, I would probably have to pull and store pollen from Little by Little to do that cross.

OK, I'll throw my two cents in. I have a Paph. Eagle Heart x Chocolate Shot with 2 buds. No photos yet, but here is a link to a photo from a vendor:

http://www.montclairorchids.com/html/paph_0160.htm

And, no, I did not pay that price for mine. Nothing near that. I got mine locally, at Woodsprite Orchids. I love that place! Only problem is I don't know how long it will take the buds to open up. (I *am* waiting anxiously for this one!) Be prepared for lots of photos when this opens!!! :shock:

Otherwise, I like the idea of crossing it with Bell Ringer Brocade.

I keep changing my mind. Perhaps exul x Tyke would be the best cross. :confused:

This was fun!

Thanks

I'd love to see yours when it opens, Susan! Do you think the plant is strong enough to carry a pod?

I thought I had posted this a few weeks ago but I guess I forgot.
Anyways, here is what my In-Charm Pearl looks like today.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y279/couscous74/Orchid0206Z.jpg

Great suggestions, everyone! :clap:

I'll take more suggestions through tomorrow and then assemble a list to vote on in a poll! :Party:

Really think it is fun!

I'd love to see yours when it opens, Susan! Do you think the plant is strong enough to carry a pod?

Hi Ross,

I'm holding my breath and hoping that the buds will open. I can't wait to see the flowers. So far, so good, but the progress has been very slow. Still, every day, I notice slight progress. It has 4+ large growths and it is a very healthy, vigorous plant, so I do think it could support a pod, despite that this will be the first blooming.

I don't know what the parentage of this one is. I suspect it would take a bit of research to figure it out.

Wow! Two buds on a first blooming! Can't wait to see it bloom!!!!! (crosses fingers)

Nice Marcus!

I have a nice round light green Snow Glory with a small white margin that might work. It is a first bloom seedling of Marriotts breeding that has great round form. To give you an idea you can view a picture of one on Marriott site at:

http://www.marriottorchids.com/All%20Images/SnowGlory%20BlueJay.jpg

If you guys think it has promise, let me know and I'll try to get Donna to snap a quick photo tomorrow.

I have a nice round light green Snow Glory with a small white margin that might work. It is a first bloom seedling of Marriotts breeding that has great round form. To give you an idea you can view a picture of one on Marriott site at:

http://www.marriottorchids.com/All%20Images/SnowGlory%20BlueJay.jpg

If you guys think it has promise, let me know and I'll try to get Donna to snap a quick photo tomorrow.

That's a beauty! I love to see a picture of yours if you can get one.

For mine it's the barbigerum x charlesworthii cross.

Just think of the potential when you consider a second gen charleswothii cross and henryanum - hot pink and shiny dorsal???? Spots??? The shapes seem to be compatible. The plant sizes are smallish and reasonably robust. I like niveum too but believe this one has more chance of creating a plant with the "Ooooooooohhhh" factor.

Cheers
Stephan

For mine it's the barbigerum x charlesworthii cross.

Just think of the potential when you consider a second gen charleswothii cross and henryanum - hot pink and shiny dorsal???? Spots??? The shapes seem to be compatible. The plant sizes are smallish and reasonably robust. I like niveum too but believe this one has more chance of creating a plant with the "Ooooooooohhhh" factor.

Cheers
Stephan

To further complicate things, I really like Stephan's idea. (And the "OOOOHHHH Factor.")

I also like Bob's idea about the Snow Glory cross. Wow! That flower has beautiful form.

As for the Brachys that were mentioned, although they are beautiful plants, I'm not sure whether they would work. I mean, I really love their petals and dorsals, but have reservations about their pouches. Honestly this is just my uninformed opinion; which is that Brachys would make a good cross if the roundness of the fullness of the petals could be passed on. I'm not sure whether the colors or the shape of the pouch from the Brachys would be passed on to the prodegny as well. Personally, I would hope not, but who knows?????

Not me...just personal conjecture. (And a great opportunity to learn.)

Thanks so much for this very interesting topic!

You are right, Susan. I have seen quite a few complex x Brachy crosses with "screwed up" pouches. On the other hand, many recent good crosses have been made with complexes and Brachy's. In-Charm Pearl is an example.

Here is a photo of my blooming Snow Glory for
your consideration.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/mokey113/PaphSnowGlory.jpg


Bob in Albany, N.Y.

In keeping with the minature complex idea, Here are a few ideas:

1)charlesworthii and it's hybrids to mini's
2) armeniacum- it would fatten up those petals and help the stem.
3) micranthum- you would definitely have a pink pouch..
4) malipoense- the plant is bigger, but if you want a LONG stem here it is!
5) helenae- micro mini...

All of this would add some color to your other parent...

The mini paphs might just be the most exciting new avenue in paph breeding.

In keeping with the minature complex idea, Here are a few ideas:

1)charlesworthii and it's hybrids to mini's
2) armeniacum- it would fatten up those petals and help the stem.
3) micranthum- you would definitely have a pink pouch..
4) malipoense- the plant is bigger, but if you want a LONG stem here it is!
5) helenae- micro mini...

All of this would add some color to your other parent...

The mini paphs might just be the most exciting new avenue in paph breeding.

Good ideas!

Bob,

Your Snow Glory is beautiful! I do not know much about form, but the flower on your plant looks like a perfect circle!!! Nice traits to pass on!!!! :clap: :clap:

I agree with Susan, Bob. That is a real keeper! :Party: What is the width and height of the flower?

If the impending snow storm keeps me from the orchid meeting in Duluth tonight, I will set up a poll, then. Otherwise, I'll do it tomorrow. Thanks for all the excellent ideas and offers!

Damn... go away for a long weekend and I miss this kinda fun discussion.

More food for thought: Here's a link to picture of Freckles x henryanum = Paph Little Orphan Annie. Freckles x Little by Little might yield similar results with more variation.
http://www.ladyslipper.com/0506-04.htm


I also saw the reciprocal cross: henryanum x Freckles at the OSM meeting, yesterday. It was blooming on a tiny henryanum sized plant and had a flower similar to henryanum, but in pastel tones.