I'm considering taking my Psyche to a judging center in a couple weeks and I was wondering what exactly will they be judging? Will it be just the flower? Or is the rest of the plant considered? And will the fact that the stem isn't straight hurt it? If the old growth is yellowed should those leaves be removed? Funny too, I noticed the flower is a bit wider than it was a couple days ago. I don't know if it means it's still growing or if it's just flattening out. Also, the pouch is a little asymmetrical. Anyway, I took this pic yesterday. There's photos of it in the Gallery, but I just can't help taking more pics of it. It's so pretty ... at least to me. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/nhgirl/Other%20Plants%202/orchids003copy2.jpg

Your plant will be compared to prior awards to the same grex. The focus is on the flower itself, but the stem is part of the score sheet. The symmetry of the flower is also judged. The plant should be clean, without any insects.
The old growths shouldn't be much of a concern....
Your flower will continue to grow and will probably start to reflex as it ages.

Thank you Bill for clearing up some of mysteries of orchid judging. :) There are so many aspects to growing orchids ... so much to learn. But that's one of the things I like about it ... it's never ending.

I would also get someone to give you the information on past awards for this hybrid (from Wildcatt is a good start). That way you can get an idea of how this flower will stack up to previously awarded plants. If you can access the AOS Awards Quarterly then there is also a picture to look at.

Can you provide the following information...

Natural Spread both Horizontal and vertical
Dorsal Sepal Lenght and widt
Petal length and width
Length of stem....

That would help me track comparables and email them to you.

I would concur with the other replies to your post. it is important to compare your flower to other recent awards to this grex. I would say that it is a very pleasing flower with nice wide and rounded segments. Its alos very flat and hopefully it will stay that way! Is it a first bloom seedling? Unless it is truly superior flower, many orchid judges will tell you to bring it back when its bigger as few orchids show their full potential on a first blooming.

Let me put it to you this way. The last Paphiopedilum Psyche awarded by the AOS was awarded some 7-8 years ago. So I wonder how many "ney" Psyches have the judges seen?

You have nothing to loose taking the plant to judge. If it is not an inconvenience or frightfully expensive or a hardship: CARPE DIEM!!!!!

Let me put it to you this way. The last Paphiopedilum Psyche awarded by the AOS was awarded some 7-8 years ago. So I wonder how many "ney" Psyches have the judges seen?

You have nothing to loose taking the plant to judge. If it is not an inconvenience or frightfully expensive or a hardship: CARPE DIEM!!!!!

Also it is a GREAT education on what the judges look for.
Really, I had such a fabulous experience - without being pointed!

It's been 7 or 8 years since a Psyche has been awarded? :shock: I think the odds are stacked against me. :D As far as it being a "hardship" getting it judged, well, I'd have to drive to Tacoma which is close to 3 hrs from me, so that's 6 hrs on the road and about $30 worth of gas. I'll have to see what it looks like in a couple of weeks and make my decision then I guess. I'd love to go for the experience, but I need to think that there's at least a slight chance I'd get something. I was even thinking of waiting till the next blooming (I'm assuming I won't kill the thing.:)) and seeing how it looked. This is it's second blooming so I don't know if the next one will be better or worse. Thanks everybody for your input ... I need it. Measurments:

Natural spread ... horizontal 7.6 vertical 6
Dorsal width 4.5 height 3
Petal lenght 4.5 width 3.5

Stem is about 9

Last one awarded was to Krull-Smith, an HCC, in 2004:

Psyche
Award Number: 20040093
Natural Spread : 7.30
Nat_Spr_vert : 6.50
Ds_wide : 5.00
Ds_long : 3.70
Petal_wide : 4.00
Petal_long : 5.10
Ls_wide : 3.20
Ls_long : 2.50
Lip_or_pouch_wide : 1.90
Lip_or_pouch_long : 3.20
'KruII-Smith'
Exhibitor : Krull-Smith, Apopka, Florida.
Paph
Seven flowers and two buds on five inflorescences, well arranged on a
pristine plant 16 cm high, 28 cm wide, with 12 fans, grown in a 15-cm pot;
flowers alabaster white; dorsal sepal spotted and striped deep purple;
synsepal white, blushed purple onreverse; petals and pouch intensely
spotted dark purple; staminode white, yellow centrally, finely spotted
purple; substance heavy; texture waxy.
Judged at : Florida North Central Center
Monthly Judging, Orlando,
Florida.
Date Awarded: 2/14/2004
CCM84 79HCC AOS(bellatuluni x niveum)

Measurements are a little different, but not so much. Your form may be better. Let's see it in a couple weeks! :D

First of all, I better get my Wildcatt update installed.... ( Argh I feel deprived and my computers are not helping arghhhhhhhhhhhh)

In the case of the 2004 award..... LOOK at the number of flowers ....... somehow I have the feeling the CCM that was granted to the exhibitor helped ...Since at 7.3 cms the flowers are at the "low end" of ns...
So buy the reading of the description florifousness, arrangement of the flowers, substance, texture, color were keys in this award....

Yep, that was a pretty mature specimen in 2004. WOW!
(FWIW, I just skimmed through the Psyche awards really fast to ge to the last one. I can try and break them all out and make a new PDF today if you want (on my list of things to figure out for my database anyway.)

I am trying to get organize the list of all Paphiopedilum armeniacum species and hybrids (primary and non primary awarded) so I can play with some graphics for a presentation. The files I have been able to find hire have been a G-d sent.....

It looks good enough to get an award but I know the american system is different to ours.

Don't worry about the old growths, the flower looks excellent.

let us know how you go.

:D

There are many factors that contribute to the chance of your plant will get an award. However, there is one thing that you always need to check before bringing your plant to a judging center. You must check the size of your flower. If the measurments are substantially smaller than those of in the past. Most likely yours will not be awarded. Unfortunately, judges who are not familiar with your plants will ,most likely, use size as their base on rendering their judgement. The Award Quarterly provides only size information and color. Ability to discern a good flower from average ones comes from observation and exposure as well as willingness to learn from others.

Hi Ron- Welcome to the slipper forum!:howRU:

Seven flowers is mature? Mine had twelve back in September and several buds. Believe it or not it is still blooming right now (but it is down to two spikes). It has about twenty five growths or maybe more. I got it off eBay about five years ago. I heard that the guy I got it from had since passed away.

By the way - the Psyche that you're taking to judging has wonderful form! Best wishes getting an award.

e-spice

http://forum.theorchidsource.com/attachments/IMG_0788a.jpg

http://forum.theorchidsource.com/attachments/IMG_0545aa.jpg

Will the Psyche you have still look that good in 2 weeks?

How long do they normally look their best?

To me because we don't see many around here it looks very good but I know in the USA they are harder on those plants. I wouldn't say no if you offered it to me.......but I'm sure you're not......are you???

;-)

OMG - gorgeous - if there's a question - divide, or not - this is a clear cut case for LEAVE IT ALONE!

Geff,

You are definitley a wonderful grower :cool: . I really respect those who can grow plants well. A good quality plant will not show its potential, unless it is grown by a good grower. If you are a good grower, you just need to spend monies (unfortunately can be a lot more monies) to acquire high quality plants.

To me, sorry to say, I do not think your plant is an award quality plant. But you definitely can get a CCM or CCE. I need to look closer to determine which culture award that you can get. Note: I keep saying you not the plant...Because the cultural award is for you not for the plant.

Ron

Ron - Thanks for your nice comments. I would agree mine is probably not flower award quality. I think the notches in the petals probably are a problem in that respect. I like it because it is such an incredible grower though and looks "pretty good" too. This one has consumed its pot so much it is difficult to get the watering wand in between the leaves to give it a drink. It I got this one when I was just starting out a little over five years ago so I didn't understand the importance of buying plants that have really good parents.

Fanta-Si's plant is much more awardable because of the excellent form.

Sorry Fanta-Si - I didn't mean to take your thread over. I just like Psyche a lot!

e-spice

It has good form, good luck to you.:cool:

John

I wish I had a specimen paph! Do you mind If I ask when you bought it and how much you payed for it??

Geff,

The problem with your flowers are:
1. The notch on the petals.
2. The lower part of each dorsal reflects.
3. The way you stack the flowers. You need to use a wire so that the stacks do not seem obstrusive.

I used to know an old couple and consider them one of the best growers that I have ever known. They watered their plants about 5 yo 6 hours every time they watered their plant. The wife told me at one time it took them 8 hours to re-pot an 8 inch Laelia purpurata. Therefore, please be patient with that wonderful plant. Next year, try to bring the plant to get a cultural award.

Ron

Wow, Ron, you sound very knowlegeable! Nice to have you here! :thumbsup:

I wish I had a specimen paph! Do you mind If I ask when you bought it and how much you payed for it??

Sometimes a plant will grow into specimen size in just a few years (standard Paphs, not the slower growing groups). But, it can fail even faster. I had grown a Maudia type into a nice plant, which I repotted from a 5" pot into an 8" pot, since it had gone from 1.1/2 growths to about 12 in a little over 2 years. However, it got very upset and started rotting from the center. Now I have 3 or 4 smaller pieces left. They are doing fine though, so in 3-4 years I should have some nice plants to show off again.

The attached photo is from 8 months before the repotting disaster.

Kim

Wow, Kim, that is stunning!

Ron - Are you a judge? Just curious. Thanks for the suggestions!

e-spice

Kim - That's gorgeous!!! Sorry to hear you had problems with it.

e-spice

Yes, I am a judge.

Yes, I am a judge.

Wow!!! That is awesome!!! How long have you been a judge? How did you become one?

Great! We welcome your comments! It's always nice to have a reference right here on the SOF!:cool:

What do you think of this Maudiae "the Queen"? I don't have a judge that lives in the area. I can give measurements if wanted. I need to get an updated pic on it (It is not this dark)

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3332/paphmaudiae001editeduu7.jpg

Paph Maudiae 'The Queen' has been around for many years, and was awarded in 1984 with an AM/AOS (84 pts) with a plant submitted by Frank Hughes in California. It is considered one of the best albino Maudiaes in existence even today, and is also one of the largest Maudiaes in any color range. It is very well spread around these days, but still very desireable.

And there is a piece of 'The Queen' up for auction on E-bay as we speak.

Kim

(I am satisfied with my Claire De Lune 'Edgar Van Belle)

I got this one in spike, with 5 growths for $35! I thought that that was a steal!

AHHHHHHHHHH!
I was trying to download the image to my pic folder and the photoshop went crazy!! It may be awhile until I get this update on!

Maudiae 'the Queen' AM/AOS has seen her good days. Most people still would like to acquire this clone is just for the sentimental purpose (would like to be part of the history). These days, there so many albino Maudiaes that have surpassed the quality of the Queen. In addition, 'The Queen' is not breedable.
However, it is a very good grower.

Ron

Maudiae 'the Queen' AM/AOS has seen her good days. Most people still would like to acquire this clone is just for the sentimental purpose (would like to be part of the history). These days, there so many albino Maudiaes that have surpassed the quality of the Queen. In addition, 'The Queen' is not breedable.
However, it is a very good grower.

Ron


Which clones are you referring to as being better? I agree that 'The Queen' is not a good breeder (3n?), in fact we've seen Paph Maudiae 'Magnificum' used quite commonly and it's inferior to 'The Queen'. There have been no more than a handful of alba Maudiae's awarded since 1984, in fact most of the awards were to vinicolor and coloratum/flame types.
From checking the award information, only one awarded alba Maudiae comes close to 'The Queen' in natural spread and dorsal width and that is Maudiae 'Kimiko Hirata' HCC/AOS (79). It exceeds 'The Queen' only in petal width.

Bill,

You are right starting 1982 people seldom bring alba Maudiae type to judging anymore.

If your main criteria for better quality is purely size, you are definitely right! The Queen could be the biggest. It was 15cm natural spread when it was awarded in 1981. I would like to attach 3 pictures showing the progression of quality improvements in the albino Maudiae type. In the three pictures, you can see the leap of qualities.

Could anyone please tell me how to upload the pictures.

In Europe, there are so many alba Maudiae marketed as pot plants, they are quite big with very good form. They are award quality if they are brought to the US. People are just not into this kind of paph anymore.

RS

Bill,

You are right starting 1982 people seldom bring alba Maudiae type to judging anymore.

If your main criteria for better quality is purely size, you are definitely right! The Queen could be the biggest. It was 15cm natural spread when it was awarded in 1981. I would like to attach 3 pictures showing the progression of quality improvements in the albino Maudiae type. In the three pictures, you can see the leap of qualities.

Could anyone please tell me how to upload the pictures.

In Europe, there are so many alba Maudiae marketed as pot plants, they are quite big with very good form. They are award quality if they are brought to the US. People are just not into this kind of paph anymore.

RS

Ron,

I did a minor upgrade this morning with the Imageshack photo upload feature. In your reply or new thread, scroll down and you will see the Imageshack box and click on the browse button and upload your photos from your computer and then click "host it". Once your photos are uploaded, another window will open up and then copy and paste the forum link and paste it in your message box. Very simple.

Bill,

You are right starting 1982 people seldom bring alba Maudiae type to judging anymore.

If your main criteria for better quality is purely size, you are definitely right! The Queen could be the biggest. It was 15cm natural spread when it was awarded in 1981. I would like to attach 3 pictures showing the progression of quality improvements in the albino Maudiae type. In the three pictures, you can see the leap of qualities.

Could anyone please tell me how to upload the pictures.

In Europe, there are so many alba Maudiae marketed as pot plants, they are quite big with very good form. They are award quality if they are brought to the US. People are just not into this kind of paph anymore.

RS

Wow...I would LOVE to see those progressions!!! Feel free to ask if you need more help posting pics! :thumbsup:

Bill,

You are right starting 1982 people seldom bring alba Maudiae type to judging anymore.

If your main criteria for better quality is purely size, you are definitely right! The Queen could be the biggest. It was 15cm natural spread when it was awarded in 1981. I would like to attach 3 pictures showing the progression of quality improvements in the albino Maudiae type. In the three pictures, you can see the leap of qualities.

Could anyone please tell me how to upload the pictures.

In Europe, there are so many alba Maudiae marketed as pot plants, they are quite big with very good form. They are award quality if they are brought to the US. People are just not into this kind of paph anymore.

RS


I love this update! Now you just hit browse, then select your pic from a folder, and click the host it! button. I then copy the "Direct Link" and then paste it and put a in front, and a behind it.

Ralph,

OK...I will put the pictures and share some of my Maudiae knowledge...
I will do it tonight!! I am still at work right now.:p

I will guarantee that my posting will be useful for all of you. But be careful, after reading what I post, you will spend a lot more monies, since you will not like low quality maudiaes anymore....:p

RS

Ralph,

OK...I will put the pictures and share some of my Maudiae knowledge...
I will do it tonight!! I am still at work right now.:p

I will guarantee that my posting will be useful for all of you. But be careful, after reading what I post, you will spend a lot more monies, since you will not like low quality maudiaes anymore....:p

RS

LOL...bring it on baby!!! :thumbsup:

PaphGuy - Thanks for all this info. Good to have you in the group!

e-spice

Ralph,

OK...I will put the pictures and share some of my Maudiae knowledge...
I will do it tonight!! I am still at work right now.:p

I will guarantee that my posting will be useful for all of you. But be careful, after reading what I post, you will spend a lot more monies, since you will not like low quality maudiaes anymore....:p

RS

Thanks,

I will be eager to see them.... Most of the successful alba paph breeding lines in the Maudiae group in the U.S. have incorporated the Makuli breeding lines to create vigorous albinistic flowers with a slightly different presentation. Rarely are any new purely alba Maudiae crosses (or sib crosses) made these days.

do you live in Europe?

Bill

Here it is:
Height - 15 cm
Width - 16 cm
I figured out how to use the manual focus, and decided to use a black shirt!


http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2769/picture016do0.jpg

Nice pic...:cool:

test the loading...It seems it does not work...I will try again.

Please the next page...I was able to load the pictures.:cool:

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/9851/picture3an1.th.jpg (http://img116.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture3an1.jpg)

This is the original Maudiae 'The Queen' that got awarded in 1981.
Note: This is the award photo.

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3570/picture2cp5.th.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture2cp5.jpg)

This is Maudiae 'George' HCC/AOS...1991

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1180/picture1ms3.th.jpg (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture1ms3.jpg)

This is just another Maudiae that has never been shown but came from later year.

I think the pictures tell more. Unless, you want me to explain what you need to see to discern good Maudiaes from regular ones...Let me know..
Or if you can not see why the last two flowers are better than the first one, I will explain.

I would have to see the plants in person to get a better idea. The first picture shows flowers with the dorsal sepal reflexed at the base, but if the same flower was shown when it wasn't so ripe you wouldn't have the reflexing.
Often with awards, it's a matter of have the flower perfect on the day of judging. The same flowers on pictures 2 and 3 could easily reflex after a month in bloom. Both of the parents, Paph lawrenceanum and Paph callosum tend to reflex as they age and this is transmuted to the progeny.

As far as the other flower parts, the petals and the pouches all look to be in proportion. I actually like the darker green of 'The Queen' compared to the more yellow green of the other two plants. I have seen 'The Queen' with fresher blooms looking better than the award photo.

Thanks for the examples!

I think the pictures tell more. Unless, you want me to explain what you need to see to discern good Maudiaes from regular ones...Let me know..
Or if you can not see why the last two flowers are better than the first one, I will explain.

I can see some refinements following the photos...I'm not sure what it is though...I would love a "talk through." :thumbsup:

The green on the first and third one are very nice and the dorsal sepal on the last if my favorite. I think the difference in part could be the photo quality.

How does mine compare to these????

I love 'George'....the dorsal is fantastic!

I agree with Bill that lawrenceanum and callosum tend to have reflect dorsals. However, it is not because of age. It is genetic.

You can see the picture below. All these flowers are only about 3 days after the flowers open. They are ready for pot plant industry. You can see many of them have some kind of twisted dorsal. I just want to prove that the age of the flower does not contribute to this problem. It is genetic.
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2476/picture5bc4.th.jpg (http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture5bc4.jpg)

click the thumb nail for bigger picture

For the last 25 years, line breeding has been done extensively to breed out this undesirable attribute, twisted and reflect dorsal. Therefore, it is not surprising that Paph. Maudiae ‘The Queen’ has twisted and reflect dorsal, because this clone is a super old clone from the beginning of the last century.

These are some points that you want to use to evaluate whether a Maudiae type hybrid is good or not (all these points are based on today’s standard). Today standards for Maudiae type hybrids are VERY HIGH.

1.Dorsal should be virtually flat (the flatter, the better).
2.There are two types how the petals are carried (callosum – hanging down or lawrenceanum- horizontal). Therefore, either position is OK. Too much pinch on the petals are not desirable.
3.The wider the dorsal the better, as long as proportional to the other parts of the flower.
4.Pouch position should not be too low (causing a gap between the upper half of the flower and the lower half of the flower) or too high (covering the staminode). The pouch should be just right below the staminode so that it will create a full looking flower.
5.Pouch size must be proportionate to the rest of the flower.
6.Dorsal and petal should overlap to create a full looking flower.
7.Color --- Any color is fine, but clean and pleasing color are more desirable. Color is very subjective, everybody has different opinion and taste. As long as the color is not washed out. In addition, color break is a big no no.
8.Certain species will contribute color intensity.
9.Size is only 10 percent, but it is a very important factor to recognize the improvement. For Maudiae connoisseur, we are always so excited when we found a flower with good form and color and also bigger size than the regular size.
10.Inflorescence must be strong and straight.
11.The flower should look like one flower not like two flower with an imaginary seperation between the upper parts and the lower part.

Note that not every awarded flowers are actually a good flower. Many many times, flowers were not judged correctly. If you have not acquired the ability to discern good quality paph, you may want to use other means to ensure that you do not waste your monies. One easy way is to know where the flower got its award. Some of the regions have very strong knowledge about paphs, therefore, their awards warrant good quality. Unfortunately, however, there are regions that are not familiar with paph. As a result that they tend to award non award quality plants. Of course, they did not do it in purpose.

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8136/picture4dm5.th.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture4dm5.jpg)

double click for bigger picture.

You can see that this flower met virtually all of the criteria that I mentioned earlier. The only problem is the color of the dorsal. The top edge of the dorsal is kind of washed out.

RS

Wow, Ron, thank you so much!!!!

I learned from your explanation! I see my flowers differently now. It's weird that I wouldn't see some details until you pointed them out!

What a really nice treat!!!! Thank you, again!

:thumbsup: Yes, Thanks Ron for your tips
I'm hoping to get an awarded paph one day. Maybe a maudiae type:D

I love this update! Now you just hit browse, then select your pic from a folder, and click the host it! button. I then copy the "Direct Link" and then paste it and put a in front, and a behind it.

That is exactly how I do it also and I like the upgrade, one less click! :D

:thumbsup: Yes, Thanks Ron for your tips
I'm hoping to get an awarded paph one day. Maybe a maudiae type:D

Ralph and Fren,

Your welcome! I am glad that I can share something.

Fren,
I do not really recommend to get an award for Maudiae types. There are too many already and the value of an award maudiae type has gone down. If I were you, I'd rather try to get an award in species. Hybrids like a fashion, they come and go...The complex hybrid, however, re-gains its popularity.

RS

Ron,

I agree with your points as to the requirements for awarding Maudiae type paphiopedilums. Also, the standards have evolved as they do with all orchids, making comparisons with old awards generally not feasible. An AM from 1950 usually doesn't come close to one from 2007. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule.

Regarding the reflexing of sepals on Maudiae type hybrids, my belief is that it is genetic and also a matter of the age of the flower with strongly callosum influenced hybrids. If you throw in sukhakulii, and superbiens into the mix the flowers will be flatter due to the parents. The bottom line is the geneaology of the flowers and what you can reasonably expect. Also, selective breeding of the best clones and sib crosses will obviously give the best progeny.

There have been so many Maudiae type crosses made in the last 20 years that they have definitely improved. The vinicolor callosum was the biggest influence pushing the huge increase in breeding. The influence of sukhakulii into breeding programs also helped increase vigor, changed the color scheme, and brought wide petals and flat (although smallish) dorsal sepals. Breeding these species with standards like Paph Maudiae 'Los Osos' increased the size, and several crosses were line bred with plants like 'Los Osos' and it's siblings to create huge well formed vinicolors with good stems and well proportioned flowers. The sukhakulii line created such things as Paph Macabre and Paph Makuli that have produced quality progeny. The albino Paph Makuli crosses led to more interesting ,and variable, hybrids within the Maudiae type hybrids.

The pure Maudiae cross (lawrenceanum x callosum) is rarely created these days, and the best ones are sib crosses or selective crosses of the best clones. To get one awarded it would have to be superior to the standard to have a chance.

thanks for the dialogue.....

Bill,

I wish more judges participate in this kind of dialogue so that we can learn from each others.

Considering the advancement of Maudiae type hybrids, I am often baffled by many awards shown in the Award Quarterly. Many of them were so incorrectly judged.

By the way, I attached an improved strain of callosum that does not have twisted dorsal...Actually, this strain has been around since about 1998. This strain was produced in Holland.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/875/picture6np8.th.jpg (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture6np8.jpg)

Okay...here's mine:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/clavierkeating/04-04-07004.jpg
Paph (Makuli-curtisii)-Maudiae x Paph Maud. 'Napa Valley' HCC/AOS x sib


The dorsal is not totally flat...it isn't completely open yet in this shot.
I don't see a pinch on the petals.
The dorsal is wide but not in proportion to the rest of the flower.
The pouch on this is way too low.
The size of the pouch is proportional to the rest of the flower, no?
The dorsal and petals do not overlap enough.
There is too much separation between the upper and lower part due to the the lack of overlap of the petals and dorsal and the postion of the pouch.

How did I do?

:cool: We have experienced judges here...how cool is that...thnx!

Ralph,

Excellent!!! Isn't it easy, once you know the points that you need to pay attention.

Now time for you to go to your bank, and withdraw monies to buy a nice paph.

By the way, the color is good though, very clean.

The dorsal for this kind of cross cannot be that big like in a pure Maudiae.
Paph. sukakhulii will reduce the size of the dorsal. The pinch usually do not happen in this kind of cross.

Knowing the influence of its species is important so that we can expect reasonably..... I said it is simple, but actually it is not that simple. My rule of thumb is only applicable to a very complex Maudiae type. Makuli x curtisii is considered not complex yet. Therefore, the influence is still visible.

RS

Ralph,

Excellent!!! Isn't it easy, once you know the points that you need to pay attention.

Now time for you to go to your bank, and withdraw monies to buy a nice paph.

By the way, the color is good though, very clean.

The dorsal for this kind of cross cannot be that big like in a pure Maudiae.
Paph. sukakhulii will reduce the size of the dorsal. The pinch usually do not happen in this kind of cross.

Knowing the influence of its species is important so that we can expect reasonably..... I said it is simple, but actually it is not that simple. My rule of thumb is only applicable to a very complex Maudiae type. Makuli x curtisii is considered not complex yet. Therefore, the influence is still visible.

RS

Thank you for all the info, again! I love that it gives more to look at in the flower. I really feel your data has increased my interest in paphs greatly...and it's not like I wasn't that interested to begin with! LOL! I'm already obsessed...just a little more now!

Bill,

I wish more judges participate in this kind of dialogue so that we can learn from each others.

Considering the advancement of Maudiae type hybrids, I am often baffled by many awards shown in the Award Quarterly. Many of them were so incorrectly judged.

By the way, I attached an improved strain of callosum that does not have twisted dorsal...Actually, this strain has been around since about 1998. This strain was produced in Holland.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/875/picture6np8.th.jpg (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture6np8.jpg)

Ron,

I agree, we need to always learn from each other. No matter how much you have experienced, there are always valuable things to acquire from others.

What sort of awards are you questioning? It's always easy to criticise what other regions have awarded, and the picture doesn't always tell the story. Of course, mistakes are made also!
It reminds me of the cover photo on the AQ a few months back with the lovely green complex paph with the contorted pouch. What were they thinking, awarding that with the obvious flaw then putting it on the cover?

That is a beautiful callosum, very full formed and the ventral sepal helps to fill out the flower. When you compare this to jungle collected material, it is light years beyond those plants.