(not sure where to post this?)

Not limited to slippers...let's open it up. Also, consider it opened up to change! Always, change is good!
I love this forum, but I'd like to see more serious discussion on this sort of thing - not necessarily *what* you have to spend, but who and why you would spend it on and where. Not about the $$$, about what makes the plant worth that $$$ (at least for my mind!)

Also, not limited to legal plants, established hybrids, etc... - let's air it all out! We've enough foreign members here - they have different laws than we in the US. So it mostly makes me curious!

Personally, I'll pay more for grexes established as superior, and newer breeding derived from those grexes, and new breeding, and new plants (legal, but hopefully superior? Not having had the chance to experience the latter, part of me wishes to be more patient and wait for better breeding, but the other half wants it ASAP!)

Should probably be under Orchid discussion Heather - but you're the boss :)

Frankly I don't believe I have an upper limit - simply some mental barriers (and financial ones :) )

We have licensed collectors in Australia as I'm sure other countries do. I've purchased wild collected plants in the past for what I thought was a wee bit too much given that I could go out there myself and probably get better. I've moralised that to myself as "I'm saving them (the wild collected plants)' rather than going out there.

The most I've paid for an indivicual plant so far is $50.00 for a Phrag Green Hornet. I've also considered paying a hundred dollars for a primary elsewhere (still may). I've recorded the price of each plant I've purchased and the total is very frightening. But then again I've been buying Orchids on and off for 30 odd years. Saving it ( the money) may have been more sensible but I sure as heck wouldn't have got the same enjoyment and relaxation.

Cheers
Stephan

Y'all prolly know that I'm a sucker for seedlings.. but the two times I have spent some serious money, one was a stud plant I've seen and "needed" (I initially put the word want, but it didn't really express the reasoning) and the other was another plant I have also been dying to have for ages. So I spend because I really need a particular plant. Oh and both were slippers...

I've been to Orchid Auctions were a Michael Koopowitz sold for over 500 bucks... two growths, three flowers, not awarded. It looked nice... of course in the same auction a tiny Dracula no flower, awarded sold for about as much so... I've given up trying to figure out why some things go for so much... oh and the awarded Cymbidiums were all going for 15 bucks, 30 max!

cheers
tim

$6.00 U.S. :poke: Most I have spent... Hhhhhhmmmmm $45 on a Fairy Lace(unamed cultivar)--Using fairrieanum 'Marriott Darkness' (I am excited). Soon maybe $100 for a Bailey Kalina. Gotta get the BK!

it's easy to spend $150 on a plant. if only it were as easy to stumble across $150....

if money were no object, gimmie a hermanii, helenae, chaoi, a couple hangianums, several forms of lowii, and a climate controlled room to grow them.
if money were truly no object, i'd get a little house in southern china, a place on borneo, somewhere in new guinea....

hmmmmm.... the most i ever spent was 60 on a three growth paph. tigrinum. and in second place was a sandarianum 3 growth all mature sive for 55(i know good deal) it was a 90 year old lady that had a greenhouse full of cattleya and this lone paph. she refused to take anymore

So Stan, how much you want for that sanderianum? :poke:

umm not for sale but i will trade for lots of bellatulum! :D

umm not for sale but i will trade for lots of bellatulum! :D

Okay, so how much will lots of bellatalum cost me? :wink:

$6.00 U.S. :poke: Most I have spent... Hhhhhhmmmmm $45 on a Fairy Lace(unamed cultivar)--Using fairrieanum 'Marriott Darkness' (I am excited). Soon maybe $100 for a Bailey Kalina. Gotta get the BK!

Hey Tadd! I think that I've got some fairrieanums in very low bud. Now, if we can only find someone with a tigrinum in bud that won't blast............. :poke: That way, in about two years, you can have 25 seedlings for about $25.

You tease me Ross! I would love to get flasks of that... Doh! Wish I had a tigrinum! Let alone one in bud.

The most I've spent on a plant was $250 and that was for a division of an awarded complex Paph that I had seen typically offered for $800 to $1000. The most I've spent on an unawarded plant was $125 for a three growth division of a tigrinum from Tom Kalina. I had been hemming and hawing over some fairly large seedlings that he wanted $75 for. During my indecision, another party came in and snapped up the choicest plants. That's when Tom, knowing he had a live one on the line, reeled me in by going into the back and hauling out a large, three growth division of tigrinum. I was hooked, reeled in, landed, and my wallet was gutted and cleaned out by the time I was through.

In the first case, I was patient and got a relative bargain for $250. In the second case, lack of patience probably cost me $50 to $75 (See Stan's good buy, above) I will say, though, that the tigrinum has a sheath just barely showing on the oldest growth! :Party:

I can't get past the mental barrier of $50 for a single plant yet.
That's not including the hookerae that one night ... :wink:

Hahahaha, Marcus! Does your wife know? :poke:

Okay, here's one for all you breeders out there.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Phrag-Sunset-Glow-Rocket-Flare-E-YOUNG-FOUNDATION-STUD_W0QQitemZ4368472881QQcategoryZ42218QQtcZphoto QQcmdZViewItem

Hmmmmm....$400.00 for my Paph Lady Isabel 'Carlisle'. A nice big multi growth paph.

Heather, that auction plant is WAY overpriced, by about a factor of 5. However if someone will pay that more power to NeoOrchids(my commentary - the most consistantly overpriced vendor on the web) My upper limit has been $500, which I have gone up to 3 times in my 30 year obsession.

The answer to why, superior clones of plants. I was educated long ago to the fact that it takes just as much time and effort to keep an inferior plant alive as it does a great plant.

Heather, that auction plant is WAY overpriced, by about a factor of 5. However if someone will pay that more power to NeoOrchids(my commentary - the most consistantly overpriced vendor on the web)

Oh yeah, I know, but I thought it was apropo..

I'll tell you next week. I want a large pink phrag with twisted petals, possibly a sedenii blush, or something similar, or a large long petal orchid. I'm waiting for JEM Orchids to get back to me.

Hope I don't choke when I hear from him. I'm holding my breath.
Grandma

The most that I have spent was $75 on a blooming size 1 growth Paph. Booth's Saint-Adductum x wilhelminiae'Fox River' HCC/AOS . I have been buying more seedlings now they are cheaper :embarass: I just have to wait awhile to see the blooms.

I'm finding I don't like waiting very much.
Most spent (did I omit that earlier?) is $225.
I would pay more for certain things, if I could afford them - superior crosses...

's all relative...I suppose!

I still consider myself pretty minor league with maybe $125 for individual plant (NBS supardii) but generally much less than $100. Seedlings even less. For me its a matter of risk rather than patience. I'm more confident in keeping a larger plant going than a seedling. So I don't like to pay for high dollor seedlings. Since I can get a blooming size plant to bloom readily I will breed it, send the seed for flasking and have plenty of seedlings to play with for not much cash.

The most I ever spent on an individual plant was $80 for an orange form of Cymbidium goeringii. Here it is in full glory. Yes, I am crazy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/tvelardi/CgoeringiiOrangeMine.jpg

Clones of the highest quality range much higher in price going for even hundreds of dollars. This is Japan after all, the place where a plant that fits in the palm of your hand can cost as much as your car!

Tom Velardi

That is a beautiful Cym!

I won't spend alot of cash on a plant until I am confident I can actually grow the darned thing. I buy alot of seedlings because I am patient and they are much cheaper! However, when I find something that thrives for me, I don't mind going out and splurging once in a while.

The most expensive orchid I have ever bought was $70 each for a couple of specimen size Asoscendas, Barbara Hanck Suskamran Spots X Tubtim Velvet, and a John De Biase ‘Royal’ x Yip Sum Wah x V. Kasem’s Delight.

My most expensive slipper so far is a BS Paph. Shireen I just got from Oak Hill for $25. Pictures soon to follow.

I think to date the most was $75 for a division of Dvlla. Blue Boy 'Cow Hollow' which rebloomed a few times and then I re-sold it at a loss. I'd easily pay that much or more for some of the Asiatic Cypripedium species if I had enough confidence that they would survive in my garden. :?

One must remember that divisions of awarded plants, paticularly Paphs and Phrags, are almost always in greater demand than there is supply because they cannot yet be cloned reliably. So if I spend $250 for a quality AOS awarded Paph, I have two ways to recoup some of my costs: by using it to breed quality seedlings and by eventually selling divisions of the same plant, myself. This, of course assumes that I can competently grow and flower the plant.

To me that seems totally off the wall , --Why it interested me is that here there are several growers with EYOF plants which were realeased 97-99 , some only had 1 parent 4N My Sunset glow 4N is in bud at the moment
if it is a breeding plant Ok what should one do what would you do ? self it one spike to the other or put it on to something else - ??Ialso have coming into flower their Demetria & Belle Houge Point they have 1 parent 4N
I dont want to seed everythingfor seeding sake -just would like some advice on wether any of these would be worth trying .this is a new area for me --------- Thanks if anyone could help .
Billie

Anyone with an orchid(s) in flower and a toothpick can breed orchids. That said, it helps to have a knowledge of the genera you're interested in breeding including a general history of hybridizing within the genera, what constitutes a good flower, important stud plants, and a general vision of what you hope to accomplish through your breeding. For example, your goal could be breeding species or complex white Paphs. This goal would then point you toward what type of plants to look for and purchase for use in your breeding program.

As far as breeding with your Phrags, perhaps there is someone with more experience that can address those questions better than I.

The 3 I mentioned I bought as young seedling 7-8 years ago and paid $80 au
my most expensive was Phrag Fliquet -
That was $200.00 American -in 1999 .
But as said before if you really want a plant that isn't readly availbile you proberly have to pay for it
I would choose 1 good plant that i wanted over getting 3 that I wasnt really wanting .but were there .

Money & space limit my purchases --After all I keep telling myself Its a HOBBY "
Billie ----

The most I have paid is $250 (about $200 US) for a nice clone of Lady Isabel which looks like it is starting to bud. Why did I pay $250 for this plant? I saw the flower before I bought it, so I knew what I was getting. It was an above average form. I could have paid around $150 for near flowering size seedlings but as the nursery owner said, a lot of them end up pretty average. You get what you pay for.

I quickly learnt you are much better off to just pay the money and buy large plants. Firstly I don’t have the patience nor the lifespan to wait a decade for a plant to flower. And secondly I find small seedlings of multi-florals are just too hard to grow in my conditions while I find the large plants are not that difficult. I just end up throwing money down the drain buying small seedlings.

Having said that, with our first child on the way, my days of exorbitant spending may have come to an end.

David

David, I'm looking forward to seeing photos of your Lady Isabel in bloom.
For the most part, I agree. If I *can* do it, I like to get mature plants. When I first started growing I
was afraid to spend too much on plants I might kill, but I've had pretty few deaths in the last two years,
so I'm a little bolder with larger plants now.

Plus, there's something really sweet about getting really big boxes in the mail! :D

David,

How true your final statement is. But remember...it gets better, you just have to wait about 18 years.

How true your final statement is. But remember...it gets better, you just have to wait about 18 years.

It sounds like a life sentence. It could well be even longer as she probably will want to go to university as well. It looks like tiny seedlings from now on.

Heather - I certainly got a big surprise when the Lady Isabel arrived in the mail. The plant was enormous. You can get a sneak preview by looking at my signature photo. I bought it based on this picture. Hopefully I will have a bigger and better photo later this year.

David

Heather - I certainly got a big surprise when the Lady Isabel arrived in the mail. The plant was enormous. You can get a sneak preview by looking at my signature photo. I bought it based on this picture. Hopefully I will have a bigger and better photo later this year.

David

I wondered if that was it! Nice....can't wait! Post more shots!

$250 on a Kovachii seedling.

However if I were richer I would consider spending $1000 on an orchid that would get me an award.

In the meantime I will just struggle on.

;-)

$250 on a Kovachii seedling.

However if I were richer I would consider spending $1000 on an orchid that would get me an award.

In the meantime I will just struggle on.

;-)

The first and only AOS award received by a plant grown by me was a delenatii that was thrown in as a freebie with an order! That shows it doesn't necessarily take a lot of money to get an awardable plant. A little luck goes a long way.

Do I say.... $95 on a 4 growth Bailey Kalina in bloom, 2 spikes.

Shhhhh!!!!

The most I have spent was $125.00 for 1 phrag. I also have a number off freebys. I have wanted a nice besseae flava which is $200.00 but haven't weakened on that one yet. I do have a $75.00 one and will have to be content with that for a while. Especially after the shock of adding up my totals this morning.

Today I added up the totals on these.
Paphs = $28.87 per plant without shipping costs.
Phrags = $38.00 per plant without shipping costs.
Average spent per slipper = $33.44

These averages also contain the freebe plants.

I sure hope my 1999 Buick will hang in there a while longer. No more money for replacing a car. Only for slipper orchids. You know "First Things First".

Grandma

My boyfriend bought me a division of one of Marriot's chamberlains. Unawarded, last Christmas...$350.00!
Sadly, it is the only plant that I have that isn't doing so well.

Now that's love :)

Welcome to the forum Meesh :D

Stephan

I'm quite new to lady slippers, so far my collection is only 8 plants. Most expensive is $65 for Paph. Shin-Yi sanders. More and more my spending limits seems to be increasing. I have no idea what I will do if a someone put an awarded plant in front of me!

I'm quite new to lady slippers, so far my collection is only 8 plants. Most expensive is $65 for Paph. Shin-Yi sanders. More and more my spending limits seems to be increasing. I have no idea what I will do if a someone put an awarded plant in front of me!


Welcome to the forum Nautilus!

I have no idea what I will do if a someone put an awarded plant in front of me!

As I have recently found out, the cost of an awarded clone can be as little as... well....

during our Orchid Society Christmas dinner, I was called up to the front.. and lo and behold, they were giving me a plant for my efforts (hardly any) with the society...

and.... I got given a multi growth division of Paphiopedilum Gael "Camira" AM/AOC (http://www.florafest.com.au/PA.Ga.Camira.html)

so sometimes it costs nothing to get those special plants :-dance:

cheers
tim

The most I've paid so far is about 40 bucks for a single plant, but would shell out some serious cash for a blooming size bulbo phalaenopsis. Although I have one that is about 9 years away from blooming and about 7 other one that have about 12 years to go. I just haven't come across anything else yet that blew me away!! I do have a paph sand. seedling I got for about 40 bucks from JEM orchids and PEOY those are probably my most costly as of yet........

My first award was on a Paph Columberie 'Judith Anne' HCC/AOS....it was given to me by the previous owner when she was unable to flower it. Sometimes patience pays off....a little luck doesn't hurt either.

http://forum.theorchidsource.com/attachments/paphcolomberiehccaos.JPG

My first award was on a Paph Columberie 'Judith Anne' HCC/AOS....it was given to me by the previous owner when she was unable to flower it. Sometimes patience pays off....a little luck doesn't hurt either.


Wow! That is one beautiful flower. Congratulations.

Wendy, that's so beautiful! Congratulations!
What's the parentage - I apologize for not looking it up but it looks a bit complex, so I thought I'd just be a PITA and ask you. Thanks!

~H

Beautiful flower Wendy. I tried to google the parentage and came up with your award announcement - 76 points Congrats :clap:
For PITA:
Paphiopedilum Colomberie = sukhakulii x Redstart
Registered by E.Y.O.F. 1/1/1985

Thanks Marcus.
:embarass:

Very nice, lovely colour

Good shape to it too!!!

Yep, it's beautiful!
Thanks

Mang

Ok so I just went out and spent 180$ on 12 orchids and here they are:

1. bulb salebrosum
2. bulb helena
3. bulb trichocephalum
4. bulb sikkimensis
5. bulb monnieri sp. nov. Garay 'Philippines'
6. bulb Elizabeth Ann 'Buckleberry' FCC/AOS
7. bulb lasiochilum
8. bulb bicolor
9. bulb dentiferum STUD PLANT
10. bulb bootenoides (syn. frostii) x dentiferum '15 flowers' STUD PLANT
11. bulb kalimpong
12. bulb STUD PLANT NOID

Sorry no slippers here!!!!!!!!!!

Nice list BUT you should have had at least ONE slipper in there. :poke: :D

I spent $75 for a Paph. St. Swithin 'Wallbrunn' a few years ago. First ladyslipper I ever bought. Sadly, it had a bad reaction to some RD-20 I put on it and was sickly till it died one or two years ago from a bacterial infection. I paid $30 for a complex paph at the silent auction of my local orchid society (the plant with the tag is in the screenroom at the moment so I don't have the tag with me with the name of the paph). Still alive and doing good. But I've learned to stay away from the ones like spicerinum (the name might be misspelled a little) that need house temperatures but do badly in the house. I also have a Stanhopea tigrina that I got for $12 or $15 at my local orchid society. Suprisingly, there wasn't much competition for it. But I usually only go for the lower priced ones at the orchid society meeting but may go a little higher if I see a very pretty one at an orchid show. I have found ones at shows and meetings in the $10 to $15 dollar range. I'm a little more cautious when it comes to orchids since I've found out that intermediate types usually will not do good for me with the florida weather no matter how hard I try. I had a Paph. armeniacum that I got for $10 one to one and a half years ago but didn't like the humid with rains in the night weather plus hot temperatures that happened last summer. It succumbed to a bad bacterial infection but I still would try to grow another one if I found one at a show or orchid society meeting. So I now would say I have a range of $10 to $30 (if it was really worth it) that I would spend on an orchid.

I spent $250:00 for a caudatum some 12 years ago. And $180:00 for a PEOY

Hum hum...
About 200$ for 1 mature and true Paphiopedilum anitum, which will flower very soon (I'm so excited!!!)

Hum hum...
About 200$ for 1 mature and true Paphiopedilum anitum, which will flower very soon (I'm so excited!!!)

Can you post a photo of your anitum if you can?

I will post a photo when the first bud will appear, probably until april or may...

I've been in orchids almost a year now and am about to hit 50 plants, mostly Paphs, Phrags, and Phals. At first, the limit was $35 for a larger plant, so there would be less invested if everything died. But then, Orchids Limited turned out to be about 20 minutes away. And then, I wanted plants that were in spike/bloom - no tolerance for delayed gratification.

So the limit went up to $50. I paid $65 for a large Psychopsis in spike, but that was the highest until.... kovachii seedlings came along. Because I'd heard the story when Jerry Fischer of Orchids Ltd. spoke at the AOS show in Minneapolis, I went straight from his Website to the phone to reserve a seedling for - gulp - $225. Mainly, I reserved with them because the quality of their plants has been extra good, customer service (and patience with a novice) has been exceptional, and they're right here.

Now that several of my orchids are in spike or reblooming under my care, I'm a bit more confident and am splurging this weekend on a Rhynchostylis gigantea (peach) for $75, unless it turns out to be difficult to grow.

Right now, I'm not discerning enough or experienced enough to have any business paying more than $100 for a plant, but the day may come -

Welcome to another fellow Minnesotan, whitecat8! :) I agree with you that it's great to have a good local orchid grower nearby who is willing to help us through our growing pains in this hobby/obsession.

:welcome:

The most a paid for an adult anitum-140 EUR( 156 USD). I didn't hesitate too much when a saw it...

Wow, what would I pay - in part this depends upon whether my wife would find out.... (having said that she has paid about $100 for a magnificient black Paph). I have paid as much as $300 for a Cypripedium. If I found a Cyp irapeanum or molle or dickinsoni in healthy culture, I would not hesitate to pay $5000 - to my knowledge there is not a single specimen of any of these species in successful cultivation, even in their native countries. Yes, I am completely and utterly insane... but then I bought a place to raise Cyp's that results in a four hour commute to and from work every day - yes, I am completely and utterly insane!


Ron Burch

Ron, Insanity would be buying Cyps from White Flower Farm. Rusty

Wow, when would you ever have time for your plants, let alone your wife? Is it fours hours total each way or both?

The most i have spent would be 65.00 i cant remember what it was on but i know the plant died because the seller i bought it from was known for selling unestablished plants which i was unaware of at the time being new to growing orchids and new to the orchid club i had joined in the almost 20years i have been growing i still kill a plant once in a while i have it now if the plant does not look like its doing well i sell it or give it away so my price cut off point is 65.00 for a single plant typically in bloom i cant imagine how pissed off i would be if i spent over a 100.00 on a plant and killed it besides i think my hubby would have me locked up in a rubber room in thinking im crazy for spending over a 100.00 on a plant!

talk about pushing the barrier....

I've been scoping around Oz for a schlimii and finally found one... a division with a mature growth and a decent start. Asking price.... $150!

Now, I've not yet committed myself to the plant, but is it worth it? This species is hard to get around here so maybe...

course for that price I can get three mature philippinense... so... decisions, decisions...

talk about pushing the barrier....

I've been scoping around Oz for a schlimii and finally found one... a division with a mature growth and a decent start. Asking price.... $150!

Now, I've not yet committed myself to the plant, but is it worth it? This species is hard to get around here so maybe...

course for that price I can get three mature philippinense... so... decisions, decisions...

If schlimii is a hard to find plant in your country and you like it and can afford it, then go for it! BUT on the other hand, be careful as there are many schlimii hybrids sold as schlimiis.

I won't spend alot of cash on a plant until I am confident I can actually grow the darned thing. I buy alot of seedlings because I am patient and they are much cheaper! However, when I find something that thrives for me, I don't mind going out and splurging once in a while.

I agree with Teresa. That's why I bought mostly seedling of sanderianum/roth hybrids. I'm new to paph culture and I've been told and read in many places that sanderium/roth are not the easiest paphs to cultivate. So I figured if I spend $150 on an nbs/bs plant and kill it, thats $150 down the drain. If I get 4-5 seedlings instead and kill 3 that's about 75 down the drain. But, the wealth of knowledge gained from learning from mistakes is priceless and will more than make up for the monetary loss.

As of now the most I've spent on a plant is $50. I do however plan on getting several multi-growth plants as soon as I'm done with the damned CPA exam. :) Hopefully by then I'll have a bit more practical knowledge on paph culture. Well either several multi-growth sand hybrids or a huge orchidarium. :D

However, if I didn't have financial limitations I would just buy all my plants in spike regardless of price. Mabe if I win the lotto. :rolleyes:

I have to say I am now realizing how cheap orchids really are. Over the last few months I've been biten by the "Aquarium Bug" really badly, and I won't even begin to talk about how much I've spent on my new saltwater reef tank full of live corals...and the equipment and lights are much more expensive since I don't feel like risking the tank by using the cheap stuff.

Thankfully there are forums like this one that have been extremely helpful, much as this one must be to people new to the hobby.

Jon

LOL! Wow, I posted that about 7 months ago...since then I have become a little more *brave* in my purchases. I have bloomed some of the seedlings I bought over a year ago, and declared my self officially fit to spend more $$$ on blooming sized plants! I think the most I have spent on a single plant now is $100. But I have made a few $200-300 shopping sprees. :Shh:

Teresea quote:

LOL! Wow, I posted that about 7 months ago...since then I have become a little more *brave* in my purchases. I have bloomed some of the seedlings I bought over a year ago, and declared my self officially fit to spend more $$$ on blooming sized plants! I think the most I have spent on a single plant now is $100. But I have made a few $200-300 shopping sprees

I purchase a flask order of over $800.00 and my wife found out. She was really pissed off!

Paphman910

what flasks did you buy?

Kyle

"I'm new to paph culture and I've been told and read in many places that sanderium/roth are not the easiest paphs to cultivate. So I figured if I spend $150 on an nbs/bs plant and kill it, thats $150 down the drain. If I get 4-5 seedlings instead and kill 3 that's about 75 down the drain. But, the wealth of knowledge gained from learning from mistakes is priceless and will more than make up for the monetary loss."


To me, you have to try pretty hard to kill a mature roth hybrid. They are pretty tough. But I have wasted a hell of a lot of money on small seedlings. I find it more economical to fork out the money and buy a large plant. Plus, I'm just too impatient to wait for a small plant to flower. But there is a great sense of satisfaction when you can grow a small seedling into a flowering plant.

David

Kyle:
Couple Paph rothschildianum flask.

Paphman910

Kyle:
Couple Paph rothschildianum flask.

Paphman910


Good choice!
Has anyone ever suggested you should be Rothman910? :poke:
Would adore seeing photos of your roth. plants!

Paphgirl:
That was real cute.....rothman910! I have about 5 different rothschildianum sib cross. To top it off I pollinated my Paph rothschildianum with pollen from another roth throught SOF joint venture in early May.

Paphman910

The wost i ever spent on a plant was $600.00 for a "breeder" roth div from a well known nursery. This was many years ago and i didnt know a thing about multi paphs. It died within months :eek: after watering it 3-4 times a week and growing in the dark. Wonder why? lol. I know better now but still never got another roth. I think im ready now. I also have several awarded plants (phrags and a few paphs) that were 150.00-300.00.I do have to admit i don't like waiting for seedlings and like the tried and true.I now try and only buy NBS -BS paphs.

The wost i ever spent on a plant was $600.00 for a "breeder" roth div from a well known nursery. This was many years ago and i didnt know a thing about multi paphs. It died within months :eek: after watering it 3-4 times a week and growing in the dark. Wonder why? lol. I know better now but still never got another roth. I think im ready now. I also have several awarded plants (phrags and a few paphs) that were 150.00-300.00.I do have to admit i don't like waiting for seedlings and like the tried and true.I now try and only buy NBS -BS paphs.

Yikes! Sorry to hear that, George! I also don't have the patience for tiny seedlings to grow up and bloom for me especially when they are such slow growers, so I too try and buy NBS or BS plants. Paph roths are now much cheaper and many different crosses readily available but the good ones still come with a price. Good luck and let us know what you get!:D

The most I have spent for a plant is $75 for my Phrag. dalessandroi. I bought it right after it was re classified and I it was purchased from Dennis Dalessandroi himself. I thought this made it worth the price, although I was sick to see that they are now going for $20 online!:(

I also bought a flask of Phragmipedium kovachii from Piping Rock. I split it with a friend and got away with at least 6 seedlings for $125. I plan to sell a few to recover my costs.

If I could have anything, I would buy one of each of the new Vietnamese Paphs and a Neofinetia falcata ‘Ogonmaru’.


Adam

This is a great topic.
The most I've spent is $500 for a Kovachi x wallisii compot. I hope to sell a couple at some point, to recoup some cost or trade. (Upon recieving, I individually potted & they're all doing good!)
Why ? do I need to answer that?
Was it worth it? Time will tell.

The most I ever spent on a non-slipper orchid was $75 for a division of Dvlla. Blue Boy 'Cow Hollow' AM/AOS because I thought the color was wonderful. I resold it in less than a year.

The most I ever spent on a slipper is an alba Cyp. reginae which I can't remember the price of, but I know it was the most. ;)

I think the most I paid was $80 for a multiple grouth multifloral with 3 spikes.

Other than that I spent $50 for my vietnamense that is almost blooming size. no regrets here.

I would probably spend up to $500 for a multiple growth healthy vietnamense (once I graduate and have a job).

2500,1500,1000 for roths. Would prob spend more if I could afford it:)

I will soon buy two kovachii seedlings for $75 each, the most I'll have spent on a single plant

the most I have spent is $100 on a blooming sized multigrowth Paph Delrosi that bloomed this past summer. There are many things that I could spend bigger bucks on but with one in college I don't.

I think paphioland's roths are worth every penny!

Ron--how many growths did your delrosi have before it bloomed?

Justin

I'm not going to say what it cost but I got a couple of awarded paphs from Orchidview that were, by far the most expensive plants I've ever bought.

e-spice

I think paphioland's roths are worth every penny!

Ron--how many growths did your delrosi have before it bloomed?

Justin

Me too!

e-spice

The most I ever paid for a plant was $135 for a very young sanderianum seedling with a LS of only 6 inches. I didn't have one in my collection, so I decided to get one when sanderianum prices started to drop and this was back in 2001. At one time I thought the seedling wasn't going to make it but it did, growing so very slowly and now it has a LS of 11 inches.

Well I have just raised my upper amount spent. Went to my first orchid show this weekend and came home with two nice, atleast nice to me. Phrag in bloom or spike for 45 each. Never thought I would spend that much on a plant. Well next time I am at OL, if I have the cash, I will be looking at some of the 50 dollar pearcii crosses. Just love those little Phrags.
Dawn

Well I have just raised my upper amount spent. Went to my first orchid show this weekend and came home with two nice, atleast nice to me. Phrag in bloom or spike for 45 each. Never thought I would spend that much on a plant. Well next time I am at OL, if I have the cash, I will be looking at some of the 50 dollar pearcii crosses. Just love those little Phrags.
Dawn

:cool: Post a photo or two if you can, I would love to see what you got!:D

I will Peter but I forgot my camera at my friends house and it was loaded with pictures of the Orchid show too. We will be getting some paphs from stermanpt tomarrow so I will have to take her plants to her this week yet so I will be getting the camera back then. I will be taking lots of pictures when I get home. Only one of the phrags is in bloom, It is supposed to be a Sorcerers Apprentice, (got it from Hoosiers Orchids) the other phrag is in spike so I am waiting and hoping they do not blast. It is a Dick Clenents 4n x pearcii 'birchwood' am/aos from www.guintalfarms.com (that is what the tag says) that I bought from Windsomes Orchids. The paph I got is a noid that the bloom is about half way open. Got it for 18.00. The paph also came from Hoosiers Orchids.
Dawn

Paph Rosy Dawn-after shipping, about $45

Clivia-one of the yellow Salomone hybrids. That was about $55 in a huge, 2 gallon pot. Flowers every June for me, the regular orange one never flowers even when treated exactly the same.

Well
I spent 1,500 on all the flasks for kovachii crosses because certain crosses will not be repeated & at the time, Chuck & Jerry did not import all the crosses .
In all fairness, I have to say that price per seedling is not bad , 105/ 7= 15 per plantlet.
They died left and right through summer 2006 ( sorry, Stephen & Zach, looks like there will be none left standing by this summer to send to you guys) I am so used to & became way over my head with confident & success w/ Chuck's flasks (which have very big seedlings).
The kovachii flasks are different, the plants are smaller. the species culture requirement is still in experiment stage last year. Even some professional growers (like bergstrom etc.. are in trouble to keep their flasks alive)
I believe that had I have access to replate, the plants would have made it throught the heat wave.
(It must be the chemical in the formula, because there is a tiny protocorm that stick to the side wall of one of the flask without any contact to the medium survives & still very green to this day)
If I have to do it again, knowing my lack of skill , I probably wait for the bigger plants from Jerry,Chuck or Glenn.

Hi Hien,

I have been thinking about giving a couple of kovachii flasks a try. The air temperature is a tricky one for me too, but I figured the way I could manage it would be to seal a growing shelf in painter's plastic with some vents for air circulation, and then at one end put a very small wine cellar cooler. Those are designed to maintain temps of 50-65, adjustable, and it seems the least expensive way to cool a small area. Thankfully with the great growth in wine as a fad, these small coolers are actually widely available.

As for most ever on a plant- $500 for one hell of a Phal. Hilo Lip around 1990. It was a first bloom original plant that Carmela brought to a Houston show and sold me out of the exhibit.

Looking back it seems such an extravagance.

But I think timing is so key in the price of an orchid- both in terms of what is fashionable at the moment and the rush to be first to have something.

The irony of the latter is that waiting a bit can actually pay off since you pay a lot less money and get plants of much better breeding (sanderianum is getting cheaper and better all the time!)

As for the former- these days I don't know that a Hilo Lip would be worth much of anything as a high end collector plant. A shame since they can be stunning, but they just are not the hot item they were 15 years ago.

These days, I don't think I would pay more than $100 for any plant unless it was a division I wanted for breeding. For a flask, I would pay $500+ for really good roth sibling crosses using the top new clones out of Japan, but otherwise I cannot think of anything I would pay beyond a typical price for.

Tom
Sounds like your plan for kovachii flasks would work.
Wow , that is some money for 1 plant in 1990.
I see what you mean about advantage of patience on no clone name species or hybrid, & the price worthiness of good divisions & hybrids.

Hien, so sorry to hear about your kovachii seedlings! That is another reason why I don't grow my plants from flasks and compots. I just don't have the space and most importantly I just don't have the patience.

Anyway, I wish you good luck with the rest of your remaining seedlings and better luck and success next time!

Hien, so sorry to hear about your kovachii seedlings! That is another reason why I don't grow my plants from flasks and compots. I just don't have the space and most importantly I just don't have the patience.

Anyway, I wish you good luck with the rest of your remaining seedlings and better luck and success next time!

Thanks Peter, I have this bad tendency of getting nervous that I may miss out on something good (in this case, just thinking that certain crosses will not be repeated make me want to get them while they are still available)
But Elpaninaro & other peoples who are wiser make a lot of sense about waiting for the line breeding to get a more friendly plant if one is not a skillfull grower. Unless it is a very good breeding that hard to get a hold on as adult plant.
You also right about getting a more mature plant.
I hope I learn something from this.

Thanks Peter, I have this bad tendency of getting nervous that I may miss out on something good (in this case, just thinking that certain crosses will not be repeated make me want to get them while they are still available)


You're not alone, I feel and think the same way but I would much rather spend my money on larger mature plants. I don't like the idea of waiting many years for my plants to mature and then bloom.

But Elpaninaro & other peoples who are wiser make a lot of sense about waiting for the line breeding to get a more friendly plant if one is not a skillfull grower. Unless it is a very good breeding that hard to get a hold on as adult plant.
You also right about getting a more mature plant.
I hope I learn something from this.

Hi Hien,

Thank you for your kind words.

To get back to kovachii for a second, I have to tell you I am not so worried about my ability to find a way to make the plants happy as I am about the fact these are first generation crosses from the wild.

I think the current fad for Paph species can be said to have started about 15 years ago. The fad for Cattleya species is just now reaching new heights.

In both cases, I think the fad is driven by a realization that the complexity of breeding in both genera has reached a certain critical point where it is difficult to go further. Not just in terms of flower quality- but also in terms of the rate of quality in a cross. Bulldog Paphs are a good example. Modern complex crosses have an incredible rate of "freak flowers". Same goes for some of the more recent vini-color crosses. As always, a truly revolutionary flower is rare, but the rate of worthless plants has shot up.

And so many are wisely returning to the roots of hybridizing and attempting to vastly improve the species pool from which to again begin the process of breeding top hybrids.

But what is lost sometimes in this is the understanding that many species have been in cultivation for over 100 years- and that the sibling crosses made between them have generations of parents behind them accustomed to culture in cultivation and not in the wild.

Early roth crosses were notoriously difficult to bloom. On eBay today you can still find the occasional old crosses in large sizes that have never flowered. Roth was being selfed and sibbed back in the 1960s, but it was Jack Tonkin who in the 1980s lucked into the right cross and the right care to bloom out enough plants to set the foundation for future breeding in the US- and that cross was still full of plants that never flowered.

Sanderianum was just as bad. Emerson "Doc" Charles was the first man I knew who made a sibling cross of sanderianum. A breeder I know still has one of the flasks from the mid 1980s! He keeps it as a curiosity with the plants still in flask in a state of suspended animation (a phenomenon not unique to sanderianum- leave anything in flask too long and it can live for a very long time without movement.) Doc's efforts were to be applauded, but it would be another 10 years before someone was able to grow out a large population of sanderianums bred in captivity. In fact, even today I would say Orchid Inn is the only vendor with a truly comprehensive sanderianum breeding program that is known to the public.

The so-called "Chinese Paphs" like malipoense, armeniacum and micranthum were no less difficult as early generations of sibling crosses were made in captivity.

Cattleya kerrii and jenmanii proved difficult as well.

Point being- please do not be discouraged by your efforts with kovachii. It is not something you did wrong, and it is not something wrong that makes kovachii a difficult plant.

It is the same thing that has been a challenge throughout the ages for anyone who was the first to take a shot at growing a sibling cross of a species from jungle collected plants.

If you want to grow Paphs from flask successfully, there are many things I could suggest. But there are 2 things in particular I would point out,

1. When Paphs emerge from flask, they have a fragility that I have never found in other commonly grown genera. You can tell this by the leaves- which are incredibly delicate and tender.

The first step of progress after deflasking Paphs is what I call "firming up". It is that point where the leaves of the plant toughen up a bit and stop developing the little brown spots that are inevitable on flask leaves when the plants are removed.

This stage is also where watering and proper moisture are critical. I have lost entire flasks before and I have had almost 100% survival- plus everything in between. That long term outcome has almost always happened in the first 10 days after deflasking.

I have discontinued what I now consider the deplorable advice of a certain US Paph vendor to leave the agar intact when putting plants in compot. And I have also greatly reduced the use of plastic baggies to contain humidity in newly deflasked plants. Both of these things, in excess, seem to prolong the period of time needed for the plants to toughen up to the outside world.

I firmly believe now that it is best to make that process as fast as possible while allowing a bit of a transition stage. Every aspect of growing an orchid mimics life in the wild except for the flask stage. The flask stage is the one part of an orchid's life that is intended for the benefit of the human. It ensures a greater rate of germination and survival to seedling size and it speeds up the initial growth process.

But it is inherently unnatural- and in a very extreme way.

So I think the flasking and acclimation phases of an orchid's life should be as brief as possible. Once I get seedlings past that "firming up" phase and out of the effects of flasking- life is good. Once you get to this point, if you are a good orchid grower you will have success.

2. Certain types of Paphs are much easier to deal with from flask than others- and in a way more pronounced that with other genera.

There is much attention on corypetalums (sanderianum, roth, adductum etc.) these days- but they are some of the most tricky from flask. I have had some corypetalum flasks do quite well, but ALL of my disaster experiences with flasks have been with corypetalums.

Additionally, these are the plants that get the most deflasking damage for me. New leaves come out just fine, but flask leaves get brown spots and other damage in every case. Growing these out of flask is not a pretty picture.

Brachys are where things are easy. And bellatulum tops the list. These firm up within days of deflasking- 2 or 3 at most- and they grow beautifully and will flower very quickly.

Maudiae hybrids are easy too- quick transition and they do not get disfigured.

Both bellatulum and your average Maudiae hybrid will also bloom within 2 years from flask- sometimes 12 months! So no need for patience.

Hien, you write great posts here and you love Paphs. I admire you taking a stab at kovachii. My first Paph flasks ever were sanderianum- so we have the same ambition in common (and I lost a lot of high dollar seedlings too by starting with the hard stuff.) Don't give up my friend. Try a good brachy or Maudiae cross and you will do just fine. You really will. And from there you will become a pro fast.

After all, I have only been growing Paphs from flask for 5 years now- and I am just back from 18 months off due to travel. It does not take a lifetime to get the hang of this :)

:WOW: - Elpinaro - what a wonderful contribution! Thanks for taking the time to post that. I have gotten to the point where I would like to try some crosses or remakes. I wanted to ask, is there a certain company/brand of supplies that one would recommend? My first thought is to check locally & let the 'experienced' orchid grower do a couple of mother flasks and I try the replating part?
anyone, any suggestions, please make. :Thnx:

:WOW: - Elpinaro - what a wonderful contribution! Thanks for taking the time to post that. I have gotten to the point where I would like to try some crosses or remakes. I wanted to ask, is there a certain company/brand of supplies that one would recommend? My first thought is to check locally & let the 'experienced' orchid grower do a couple of mother flasks and I try the replating part?
anyone, any suggestions, please make. :Thnx:

Thank you for your kind words goldenrose,

When it comes to supplies- I buy just about all of my growing media from Oak Hill Gardens. My seedling mix used to be primarily bark- but will now be coconut husk, with some perlite, charcoal and Pro-Mix added. The change from bark to CHC will be explained in sanderianum Chronicles IV to be posted here once the new sanderianum flasks have arrived, but for now I have to say that Oak Hill has ALWAYS delivered me top growing media at a fair price and they get it in the mail fast.

For pots and growing trays, I have bought from firstrays.com and from a couple of eBay African Violet vendors. Standard seedling trays accomodate 3" and 4" round pots very nicely- and I could do a whole post on space management (and will once I get the new batch of flasks in) based on Orchid Center's ingenius approach.

As for flasks, most of my flasks have come from Sam Tsui- owner of Orchid Inn. Next comes Paphanatics, run by Dr. Norito Hasegawa who is one of the greatest orchid growers- in skill and as a person- of all time. Finally, I have purchased a few flasks from Chuck Acker who delivers plants in top condition.

When it comes to buying Paph flasks, I believe in going with the best. Regardless of quality, the time and care you will invest in growing a Paph flask to blooming size will be the same. That extra $50-100 per flask for a top cross is a lot of money, but when you think about the time you will invest in growing the seedlings to blooming size- that increased cost seems minimal.

And it is why top breeders can sell their flasks for a premium with ease while others sell for lower prices and have to work hard to push their product. Great plants emerge from all breeders who have made a good breeding decision- but the top breeders make intelligent decisions that are not evident on the face of what you read. AOS awards are great, but AOS awarded plants do not always make great breeders- and there are many plants not worthy of an AOS award which are so incredibly gifted in one particular aspect of quality as to make them promising breeders.

I hope this helps!

Elpinaro

Thank you for all the informative information. I read it and re-read it. :Thnx:

I expect to make a first try with a compot of kovachi. It cost me a fortune and I hope they all live. I may need to chalk it all up to 'experience' if they don't do well, or die. :( We all have to learn sometime. At least I can say I tried, and I might possibly learn something from it, even if it is a hard lesson.

Wish me luck.

Grandma

Thanks Elpaninaro - it does help & my thoughts are along that line. I live about an hour from Oak Hill Gardens, so I've come to know them over the years. What I was more interested in was flasking supplies- containers, agar, nutrients, etc. to try it at home....or do you send it to someone offering these services? If so, who?

Yes, thank you so much for your helpful information! This is very useful for my because I just received my first flask!

The most I have spent on a single plant was a sanderianum (Long Dorsal x White Hair). $90

The most on a single pot was a charlesworthii (Half & Half x Hidden Surprise) compot from Sam. Those guys are mostly HUGE and ready for mini compots or individual pots. $150

sanderianum Chronicles IV? Where do I find 1 - 3?

Thanks Elpaninaro - it does help & my thoughts are along that line. I live about an hour from Oak Hill Gardens, so I've come to know them over the years. What I was more interested in was flasking supplies- containers, agar, nutrients, etc. to try it at home....or do you send it to someone offering these services? If so, who?

Hi all,

I waited a day to see if anyone replied because frankly I have no idea where to get flasking supplies these days. I did some flasking back in high school- Dad had access to a hospital lab so I had the perfect place to do it- but it has been a hell of a long time. Gallup and Stribling is where I would get my agar mixes as I recall, and then I added fresh banana and went from there. To be honest I am not sure where to go today. There are not so many ads in the AOS Bulletin for such things as there used to be.

Grandma- just read all you can on kovachii's habitat, make accomodations in your home to approximate that and I bet you will do fine. I have been to Peru, but not to that specific habitat- so I can only offer general thoughts. If you can stand spending the $100 or so, get yourself a very small wine cellar cooler which can chill the immediate area where the plants will live with minimal sacrifice to humidity (wine cellar coolers are a blessing for us orchid lovers since they are designed to minimize humidity loss.) And then wrap that indoor shelf/growing area of the greenhouse (whichever applies) with plastic film and a few airholes to keep in the cool air. That is my plan when I take a shot at kovachii- that and I will put them from flask right into individual pots since I will have enough moisture to make that work by using moss to pot plus gravel and water in the trays. It is hard to imagine (and recreate!), but in that part of the world where many orchids grow in the mountains it really is cold AND very humid at the same time.

All theory on my part since I have not yet started with kovachii, but if it helps- that is the plan that has been working in my mind.

As for sanderianum Chronicles I-III, I and II can be found with a Google search. A couple of folks were kind enough to archive them complete with all the photos I did. I was younger then, so lots of "LOLs" and other talk I kind of cringe at now, but hopefully they will help. I am not sure III was ever put anywhere online, but frankly III did not have any new info- it followed right on the heels of II and there were no major changes like there will be with IV.

Nynaeve- good luck with your first flask! What is the cross? I hope it proves great fun for you!

Take care,

Tom.

It's a philippinense species from Troy Meyers...a cross of RickL and Peter's plants. You can see some photos of it in the paph gallery section!

Tom, :urock:

Too many "LOL's"? I don't think so.

The only thing missing from the posted information at

http://www.nascentorchids.com/Library/sandchron/Intro.html

is a date when the project described took place!!!

I am very much looking forward to the next installment as I have a smallish 9" sanderianum to care for now. Does anyone have a ruler that goes below 1/32" to measure growth with???? :confused: I guess I could use my calipers and get down to 0.001".:eek:

I have attached a picture of my latest "project". I call it the Primary Circle.

I was deciding between a $100 paph philippinense alba seedling and a mature flowering beautiful phal speciosa...I eventually settled for the former...wonder how many years more I have to wait for that to flower...the most expensive plant so far.

Most orchids cost me around $25-50 but I bit the bullet and spent $75 on a P. kovachii seedling....it should arrive in early May...I must be crazy!

My most expensive would be a kovachii cross I ordered from Piping Rock recently. I'm eagerly anticipating its arrival :)

Here's mine:

Paph. (St. Swithin 'Candor Excalibur' FCC x Laser 'Candor Black Ruby' AM/AOS)

I am about to spend $120 for a NS jackii.

I am also in the kovachii boat for $75 a pop.

I am about to spend $120 for a NS jackii.


Congrats! You've finally found a source for it, eh? :woohoo:

Congrats! You've finally found a source for it, eh? :woohoo:


Yes, and I meant to say BS (blooming size) not NS. I should check for typeos more often. :D

I am very serious into roths, probably having over 30 in my collection. Most having excellent parentage which demand a high price. In building a collection especially roths you can spend a bundle. Will not give the amount of what I have spent but have purchased from the best growers out there. A good portion of my roths were purchased as NBS and BS, so do the math!!

Thanks,
John

Yes, and I meant to say BS (blooming size) not NS. I should check for typeos more often. :D
James , I read the post before this one and could not figure out what a NS is either, I thought it is a special term .:p

I am very serious into roths, probably having over 30 in my collection. Most having excellent parentage which demand a high price. In building a collection especially roths you can spend a bundle. Will not give the amount of what I have spent but have purchased from the best growers out there. A good portion of my roths were purchased as NBS and BS, so do the math!!

Thanks,
John

30 roths in your collection? Wow, that is some serious collection! What clones/parentages do you have? Do you have a favorite one, your pride and joy? Mine is my Rex x MM.

:welcomesof:

James, who is your source for jackii? Do you know a Canadian source for hangianum?

The most I paid for an Orchid is when I had a chance to visit the Orchid Zone during the time he has blooming size Paph. roths (MM x REX) is $300.00 unflowered Bloomimg size seedling. Good thing it was a good one when it flowered.

Ramon:D