Hello
Is CITES document needed for deals between two private persons even if the plant is bought at a nursery that actually propagate cyps?
I am thinking to have a friend by a Cyp from a nursery and then send it to me.
Does he need anything more than the invoice or what is needed.
I am in Sweden (inside Europeean Union).
I agree on the importance of stopping plants to be taken from the wild but what about hydrids and plants that is sold in one country. Why can it not be exported? "The damage is done" since it is already sold (and possibly dug up) but Then it should be illegal to sell it in Japan as well. It is legal to sell it in Japan so why not to export it?

Thank You for any information and comments

Joakim

cites is not needed if things are done within national boundries
if it is between two nations, it is my understanding that cites is needed

japan and germany seem to be more lax in their enforcement of cites
at least, i've noticed fairly recently discovered plants for sale on both german and japanese vendor sites

Yes, as Likespaphs has said, you will need that document along with a phytosanitary certificate as well. Of course you need to be familiar with your own country's regulations as well. The best thing to do is find someone who has already done this process successfully and get pointers on how to do it. While CITES is an international law, how it is implimented varies widely according to the country the plants orginate in and where they're destined to go.

I looked into shipping to the states from here (Japan) and was daunted by what I needed to do. To get a certificate for ONE species I had to provide pictures of the actual plants growing at the nursery along with a document the grower fills out affirming that they are propagated and not wild collected. This has to be done with each plant and if you find another supplier, with new suppliers as well. Now comes the hard part. Truly native orchids are capable of being sent out of country (to America) but non-natives may be much more difficult or even impossible. Also, many native plants being sold in Japan ARE wild collected! Examples would include Cypripedium japonicum (virtually all of them), Cephalanthera species, Liparis species, Goodyera species, and so on. So you can see the problem here. I've given up for the time being.

Also, Japan is a country that still accepts thousands of wild collected plants into its borders each year. I have looked at catalogs showing quite an assortment of species at rock bottom prices: C. wardii, 2 for $40; C. fasciolatum, 2 for $35; C. farreri, 2 for $40; C. plectrochilum, 3 for $35; C. ventricosum, 5 for $50, and on and on. Plants are shipped in large boxes from China, Korea, and Taiwan full of plants, often unmarked. They are then either sold as rootstock or shipped to nurseries where they are flowered and sold. I guess they all have "CITES documentation" somehow, but they most certainly are all wild collected, and under that law, illegal. Furthermore, I've been told by more than one grower that Chinese plants cannot be sent to America. I could go on.

So the question is a matter of what you can get away with (your situation could be much less difficult than mine) and your personal ethics. If you buy plants from a good dealer, then they will provide you with a good, healthy plant. However, that does not guarantee it was not wild collected! Virtually all adult Chinese species are wild collected these days. One day soon, hopefully many will be offered that are not wild collected, but not at the prices given above! A lab propagated C. wardii for instance would fetch into the hundreds of dollars for an adult plant, but you can get two for a fraction of that now! If you get a bad supplier they will send you recently dug plants, many of which will die. The choice is yours in the end.

Good luck.

Tom Velardi

Yes, you need the documents.

But no one will ever know if you're just receiving a few plants and they're shipped in a box that's not got a nursery as a return address label. The EU is much more lax than the US with regards to CITES.

--Stephen

Note that Cyps are Appendix II like hybrid Paphs and Phrags -- Paph and Phrag (and Mex) species are Appendix I. Selens are also Appendix II. In fact, all orchids other than those listed on CITES Appendix I are Appendix II.

Thank You very much for Your answers.
I was actually thinking on buying from the nursery Tom has been talking about and it seems to be propagating cyps them selfs.
I am also aware of the vast import to Japan of wild collected plants and do not want to be part of that in any way.
Even if the plant is "already dug up".
The nursery can not break the rules and that I understand, but for private persons doing it in a very small scale with propagated stok is maybe different.
The nursery I saw and liked was http://www.minax-bio.co.jp/top.html.
He seemed to have nice colored plants of the the little more hardy cyps.
Maybe there are no plants that can not be bought in Europe already, or that I could afford or be interested in. The plants I would be interested in would be nice coulored Cyp. vent and Cyp mac not any other and not any Chinese spotted leaf that are the ones that for sure are dug up.

The question about hybrids are the still needing a cerificat since they does not exist in nature? Providing it is a new hybrid? Or does one have to prof that it is a hybrid, by having the vert to prove one did not need it? Maybe every one would claim they are shipping hybrids if it was not needed.

Thank you once again for clearifying this.

Kind regards
Joakim