I have a Paph henryanum that just opened up yesterday. Very coincidentally (NOT), I have some henryanum pollen from another plant stored very conveniently in the fridge. I've read differing versions of when would be the best time to pollinate. Some say the pod parent flower should be a few weeks old. Others say right away. I noticed with my first henryanum plant (the pollen parent) that bloomed, that these don't stay in bloom that long.

Any ideas? I'd love to hear from more experienced breeders out there!

Here is a shop of the (hopefully) pod parent:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b234/dustyatticstuff/MommyHenry3.jpg

and the pollen parent:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b234/dustyatticstuff/Henryanum.jpg

The pod parent has another bud coming along, if things do not work out with the first one. I think these 2 would make nice babies and if I'm lucky enough to get seed, I want to donate it to Troy Meyers Conservatory.

I look forward to hearing from all of you!

(WHY don't I have one of these?)
(Don't answer that.)

Susan - you're sneaky! Great shots. I like the color on the first one (but maybe that's because it is so new?) but the form and spotting on the second.
I've no idea the answer to your question. For some reason, this question has always confused me.

Beautiful flowers! This is one species that I still don't have... yet.

Hey Susan
My henryanum is just opening now too, so save some pollen for me.

Henryanum blooms generally hold up for at least a month, how long did your first one hold up?

I used to get real frantic about pollinating early (in the first week), but I'm less frantic now and get good results waiting up to 3 weeks. I have gone even longer when I was holding out to get a plant to a show or judged. Beyond 4 weeks things get iffy. The last time I pollinated a henryanum it was about on its 4th week, and the flower wilted 2 or 3 days after pollination. It didn't produce allot, but there were still embryos.

Without making it sound like a rule, I'd say try to get a pollination in within 10 days of full opening.

If I remeber right there was a poll taken on this topic.


Yup Scroll down to "Best time to cross paphs??"

I think why I get confused is when to pollinate vs. when to harvest. Thanks Rick!!

Best of luck MOMMA! :)

Setting a time limit on harvesting is much tougher, because each species is different and growing conditions differ. So harvesting seed can range from 4 months to over a year. So the only good answer is:

Before the capsule splits and you loose the seed on the greenhouse floor.

Oh, actually I meant harvesting the pollen, Rick.
I need to do a walllisii day count....

Hi Rick, I would be very happy to send you pollen! That would be fun. I can give you one pollen sac (Is that what you call it?) from the pollen parent and one sac from the pod parent. Just let me know when I should harvest the pollen from the pod parent, and how to pack it, your address, & I'll send it along. I want to save one of the pollen sacs from the pod parent, in case the pollination does not take. That way, I can pollinate the second flower, which is still in bud right now. Or maybe we can trade pollen? It's for a good cause. I really like the idea of donating seed to Troy Meyers Conservatory, and getting a free flask is not shabby either. :D

OK, 10 days it is. That sounds about right. And I don't show my plants, so I'm fine with it. If I recall the bloom on the pollen parent lasted 3 weeks. It may have been more. I got disoriented as I was away when it opened. (Talk about deprivation!)

Heather, I noticed the differing forms of the flowers as well, and I'm glad you commented. The photo of the (hopeful) pod parent was taken one day after it opened. The photo of the pollen parent was taken about one week after it opened. Also the lighting in the photos was different. As I recall, the pollen parent had some decent coloring as well. And yes, it is interesting to observe the differences in form between the two blooms. I hope that the pollen parent can pass on its somethat frilly dorsal to the potential offspring. I'm not sure which pouch I prefer right now. I love their colors and the spots.

Now, I just have to buy some candles, put a pretty tablecloth on the table, get some champagne, and buy some (of the Late) Barry White albums :evil: , to set the stage for doing the deed.

Only kidding, of course. With my eyesight and the size of henryanum, this will have to be like a surgical procedure in bright light.


:Shh:

For that matter you can wait till the flower just about craps out before taking the pollen. Considering how long it will last in the fridge its not that critical.

Yes you do need to check on your wallisii. I pulled mine prematurely (90 to 100 days) due to the Erwinia in the parent, and they were full of embryos, even a "spontaneous" capsule had good looking seed. They went to Troy's a couple of weeks ago. So we'll see.

For that matter you can wait till the flower just about craps out before taking the pollen. Considering how long it will last in the fridge its not that critical.

Yes you do need to check on your wallisii. I pulled mine prematurely (90 to 100 days) due to the Erwinia in the parent, and they were full of embryos, even a "spontaneous" capsule had good looking seed. They went to Troy's a couple of weeks ago. So we'll see.

Rick - who are you speaking to in the first part? I have a lowii getting ready to crap out. Worth saving pollen at this point?

Regarding the second part. Pollinated the wallisii exactly 3 mos. ago today. What now?? eek!

Rick,

I didn't think Troy took "green" capsules. I would be more comfortable harvesting them as green, but I thought he preferred seed, judging from his web page instructions.

Also, I don't have a greenhouse, but I do need to know what to look for as a pod matures. Right now, my 3 pods are green. Do they start to turn brown as they get close to maturity? I know to look at the sides for "seams" to split. It is scary for me to think about. I don't want to harvest a pod that is too green, nor do I want to have seed falling all over the place.

Guess it will just take careful observation and (gradually) experience to know when the time is right!

I know to look at the sides for "seams" to split. It is scary for me to think about. I don't want to harvest a pod that is too green, nor do I want to have seed falling all over the place.

Is there something you could attach below the pod in case it splits? Maybe shape a tinfoil safety net?

Rick,

I didn't think Troy took "green" capsules. I would be more comfortable harvesting them as green, but I thought he preferred seed, judging from his web page instructions.

Also, I don't have a greenhouse, but I do need to know what to look for as a pod matures. Right now, my 3 pods are green. Do they start to turn brown as they get close to maturity? I know to look at the sides for "seams" to split. It is scary for me to think about. I don't want to harvest a pod that is too green, nor do I want to have seed falling all over the place.

Guess it will just take careful observation and (gradually) experience to know when the time is right!

Same issues here. Skeered!!

I don't have any helpful information to add, but I would like to chime in and say how glad I am to see people exchanging pollen of species plants. After reading Koopowitz's "Orchids and Their Conservation" I've been persuaded that every little bit of ex situ conservation helps. Spread them genes around! :clap2:

Marcus, I think I saw something, somewhere, that said to put coffee filters under the capsules when you think they may be ready. I know that on Troy Meyer's web page, he shows how to use coffee filters to harvest and store seed.

Shady, Thanks! I do love the idea of replenishing species. I have a spicerianum breeding in the works as well. My ultimate fantasy would be to get a tigernum capsule :whoo: , but that won't be for years: if ever. I'm still so new at this and don't know exactly where I am heading with it, but it does seem like I may be selling off some of my hybrids to make room for species. We'll see.

I love getting input and ideas from forum members.

You know who to sell the fairrieanum hybrids too....

If I ever get that far, Tadd, it would be a freebee. I do have 2 fairies, but they are little guys and proabaly far away from blooming! (Much less pollinating, the whole capsule adventure, flasking, germination, etc. ) But who knows, right? :therethere:

We've only got time Susan...... Mine are relatively small also :)

DON'T PANIC LADIES :shock:

Troy made a special exception on greencapping, since the plant was dying, and we didn't want to risk infection in the capsules.

The literature I have indicates that capsules on long pettaled phrags may go for about 200 days, so you should have plenty more time to wory about them.

When the capsules are mature, they will yellow (or brown in the case of normally dark capsules) and start to split along the seems. This can happen over weeks, sometimes days, so you will get some heads up. Some Phal and Bulbo capsules I have had have not been so obvious, and pop open more dramatically than paph capsules, loosing everything.

Thank you, oh seedpod saviour! :bowing:
I will stop panicking now.

I should add that I have had seed pods go beyond the normal time, or look kinda ratty without ever really changing color or starting to split. In those cases I split them myself.

The wardii that have gerninated at Troy's is an example. I think they went for about a year, and got a little pale and spotty, but never yellowed and split, so I opened them myself.

One of the better germinations with about 500 seedlings right now.

This photo of my hopeful pod parent was taken on Sept 15'th:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b234/dustyatticstuff/MommyHenry3.jpg

Here is the same bloom only 2 days later:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b234/dustyatticstuff/MommyHenry7.jpg

You got your ruffles Susan, and I like all the red hues. What's the flower span?

It's just about 3" wide by 3" tall. (I'm not very good with the metric system.) The colors might be slightly off on the photo, but the leaves do have some reddish/burgundy in them. I don't know whether the photo picks up this thin green line around the rim of the pouch. I really like it AND the second bud is very close to opening up. :Party:

Good heavens!!
What a wonderful photograph!

2.54cm/inch so 3 inches is about 7.6cm

So at 8.5cm, you have a good size flower. :clap: :clap:

I'd say so. I also like the amount of overlap between the petals and sepals. Can anyone out there with Wildcatt do an awards check on henryanum? There are probably a ton. In the flower descriptions in Cribb's and Averyanov's books the flower span listed is only 6cm. So henryanum has grown a bit since getting them out of the jungle.

Susan If your flower was flatter what would the petal span be?

wow :drool:

Rick, I flattened it out as best I could, against a ruler to get the 3" petal span. So, I'd say that you have one heck of a nice flower there!!!!

Marcus, it's time to go down that "dark path" that Heather mentioned and buy one!!! :twisted:

Ok Susan
For imformation sake, when judges measure flower span they do it on nonflatened flowers. Some flowers naturally have allot of curl to them so you can loose allot of apparent span with long petals that curl.

Take Care Rick

Marcus, it's time to go down that "dark path" that Heather mentioned and buy one!!! :twisted:

:Shh: I think he did!

:lol: