Does anyone grow this rare species? I have all the long petalled Phrag species in my collection except for this one. They are hard to find, any suggestions where I could find one? Thanks! I may not even get one since they look so similar to warscewiczianum but who knows! :confused:

Dear Pete,
when I remember correctly then Norito Hasegawa had some years ago flasks and seedlings.

Best greetings

Olaf

Thanks, Olaf! :D

OK the name is exstaminodium so it hasn't any staminodium and any pollen neither, so how do you make seed on this specie?

Uri,

As fas as I know this taxon is only lacking the staminodium. The remaining part of the column is still intact. So it does have two pollinia and a stigma. Hence the creation of seedlings is possible.
If it didn't have pollinia and a stigma it would be impossible to survive in nature. Unless it only reproduces vegetatively.

RZu

P.S. Anyone: Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't believe it is entirely correct. There are plants that are apomictic (not involving the fusion of male and female gametes in reproduction ). All offspring are identical to the pod parent.

I believe I have stated that concept correctly.

Jeff

You might also check with Windy Hill, and I know that Earl at Orchid Babies had a bunch of them the last time I saw him.

I think Jeff is pretty close on apomictic. This species seems to produce viable seeds without pollination.

I can't remember the source, but I read that there actually was pollen travel within the collum (from the pollinia to the ovary) so according to whatever source I read there is fusion of gametes in apomictic propogation. Someone needs to google on the definition of apomictic to see what the story is.

This seems to be a fairly common occurance in many phrag species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apomictic

Tres interessant!

Just like Heather said: Very interesting information. Thank you.

Unfortunately for me this kind of information, and more so the articles in the taxonomy threads, are way over my head. However I find the research that is done more and more recently on the relationships between taxa based on DNA and such very fascinating, so I guess I'll have to do some selfstudy in the (near) future to understand things like this (better).

RZu.

Apomixis = asexual seed produced without the normal fusion of pollen and egg, giving rise to seedlings genetically identical to the pod parent.

This is probably not what happens with exstaminodium. In Phrag lindenii, the pollinaria grow into contact with the stigma -- this is obligate self-pollination, not apomixis. I have seen fields of lindenii in pod in Ecuador. I do not know what exstaminodium does, but I'd guess it's like lindenii, i.e., not apomixis.

Obligate selfing would indeed yield highly inbred (nearly genetically identical) populations, but they might not be expeted to be 100% identical as would be the case with apomixis (barring somatic mutations, of course).

Inbred lines like lindenii and exstaminodium could be very interesting however if crossed -- and the F1 and F2-selfed progeny followed morphologically and with genetic markers -- this could yield candidate genetic loci that control the extra-petal and minus-staminode traits!

If anyone out there has interest in such stuff, let's go at it!

Besk

Keep on going Besk! Me sucker for "such stuff"!
Mang

I believe...but I am not sure....that I read somewhere that exstaminodium is cleistogamous...that is, the flowers are self-pollinated while still in the bud stage.....take care, Eric

Cool Eric

Beskriver can you give us the same turorial on cleistogamus reproduction?

Exacto as already stated: cleistogamy = production of flowers that do not fully open and that are automatically self-fertilized. Many cleistogamous species of flowering plants are recognized. But, Phrag exstaminodium does fully open, so 'cleistogamous' is not the proper word, even if its descriptors used that word. Again, I'm not sure it even does auto-self, but if it does, exstaminodium would then be just like lindenii. I have never seen nor heard of a cleistogamous slipper orchid.

Best from Besk

Hi,

I am new to this forum, so a little bit about myself:

I work for Jerry Fischer at Orchids Limited here in Minnesota, USA and I do all his lab work and breeding work. My background is in Plant Breeding and Genetics, and I have done some Plant Taxonomy, Tissue Culture and Plant Cytogenetics in the past, but have always had a passion for orchids.

I am the one who wrote the article together with Guido Braem regarding Phrag popowii, so if you have any questions about that, feel free to ask.

Regarding Phrag. exstaminodium; we have a plant in the greenhouse that bloomed this spring, and yes it does selfpollinate (just like Phrag. fischeri, Phrag. lindenii and Phrag. boissierianum) the reason is that the 2 pollinia touch the sides of the staminode, so the pollen tubes will automatically grow into the staminode and pollinate the flowers.

I let one of the pods mature on the plant, and just planted the seed here in the lab, so hopefully we will have some seedlings available in the near future.

Here is a flower of Phrag. exstaminodium (I hope this works):





http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/drorchid/Phrag.jpg


DrOrchid (a.k.a Robert-Jan Quene)

Hello, and Welcome!!

I edited your post so that the photo would show automatically, you just need to surround the link with link in order for that to work. Or, in photobucket, chose the third option that it lists under the each photo and just copy and paste and it will add the image tags for you. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

I had no idea that Phrag. fischeri self-pollinated! I guess I'll have to look for that on the one I have coming from you folks this week. :wink: Thanks for the information and I'm sure we'll all enjoy having you with us. It's a great little community!!

Best,
Heather

:welcome: to the forum DrOrchid :)

Excellent stuff - I look forward to the opportunity to learn more from you.

Cheers
Stephan

Welcome DrOrchid, and thanks for the photo. :D

Hallo Robert-Jan,

Alles goed me je?

Welkom in het forum.


Rob Zuiderwijk

Bedankt!

Ja, alles gaat goed hier in Minnesota. Vorige week heb ik een AM van de American Orchid Society ontvangen voor een van mijn Phragmipedium zaailingen (Elizabeth Castle x besseae), dus ik ben een trotse vader!


For those of you who can't read dutch; Rob Zuiderwijk knows that I am dutch, and he just welcomed me to the Forum, and asked how I was doing, so I replied back to him in dutch. and told him that everything was going good here in Minnesota, and that I just received an AM/AOS for one of my crosses that I had made.

Robert-Jan

Congratulations on the AM/AOS!

I could figure out what Rob Z. said but your's, Robert-Jan was a bit more involved. :D
I don't speak Dutch, but have a little experience w/ German.

I just posted a picture of the awarded phrag, from one of my crosses. Here is the link:

http://www.slipperorchidforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=24088#24088

Robert

Robert-Jan,

It's good to hear that everything is OK with you. And congratulations with the AM. I checked-out the photo and it's an awsome flower. Great shape and very nice intense colour. Absolutely worth it's award.

RZu.

P.S. Heather I will stick to English from now on so you don't have to read German to understand my Dutch. :lol: