has anyone tried to sow seeds the "old fashioned" way?.....by sowing the seeds in the pot of the pod parent? i've heard accounts of this producing very strong and fast growing seedlings. can this be done with flask grown parents or just "jungle" collected parents? i think the key is the mycorhyzal, sorry for spelling, presence and association....is there a way to introduce the fungus to flask grown plants?
i'm interested to hear the replies on this one.........

thanks!
-b

I have never tried it but I did see a multi floral Paph plant once that belonged to another grower had many small seedlings growing around and near the base of that plant. I asked the grower and he said they just "sprouted" and didn't have to do anything so yes it can be done the natural way I guess.

i understand that the more seedlings which survive the better the chance of having a stand out flower....but if you find a breeding line which displayed great flowers consistantly and then sow seeds the old fashioned way. my thought is that these seedlings would be very vigorous and produce great flowers.

I forgot to mention it was a hybrid plant so it wasn't jungle collected.

I have never tried it but I did see a multi floral Paph plant once that belonged to another grower had many small seedlings growing around and near the base of that plant. I asked the grower and he said they just "sprouted" and didn't have to do anything so yes it can be done the natural way I guess.

That is very interesting! I thought orchids are only grown from seeds in flasks in clean sterile labs. LOL

Cultivated orchids do self sow just like they do in nature.

I have never tried it but I did see a multi floral Paph plant once that belonged to another grower had many small seedlings growing around and near the base of that plant. I asked the grower and he said they just "sprouted" and didn't have to do anything so yes it can be done the natural way I guess.

Thats interesting! so he just let the seeds drop and germinate on their own?

interesting....i thought the seeds needed the fungal symbiosis to provide the correct nutrients when in situ ......which is why we sow seeds in a nutrient agar in the lab. i think i may try it with one of my phals.......then maybe a paph

interesting....i thought the seeds needed the fungal symbiosis to provide the correct nutrients when in situ ......which is why we sow seeds in a nutrient agar in the lab. i think i may try it with one of my phals.......then maybe a paph

That would be really interesting! Let us know how it goes.

has anyone tried to sow seeds the "old fashioned" way?.....by sowing the seeds in the pot of the pod parent? i've heard accounts of this producing very strong and fast growing seedlings. can this be done with flask grown parents or just "jungle" collected parents? i think the key is the mycorhyzal, sorry for spelling, presence and association....is there a way to introduce the fungus to flask grown plants?
i'm interested to hear the replies on this one.........

thanks!
-b

It can be done,but is not easy.I had some natural germinations but particularly with Phrags.
I think that the seeds can germinate or with micorhizal infection,or with the direct contact with roots of motherplant.Sometimes can have micorhizza in the media without the plant been wild collected.Here are some photos of germination(the mother plants are Paph rothschildianum and Phrag longifolium,grown by me from seedling size,so 100% shure not wild plants).I flowered already some of this seedlings with good results some same quality of parent some less some better.Now searching to do 2nd generation but as I used few times disinfectants on all my plants,untill now no results.Have to wait that this products vanish away.
Hope you can germinate "old way" many plants!!

We have pictures and proof finally! I find this topic really very fascinating and a little confusing. If we can grow from seeds the old fashioned way then why do people spend so much time and money using the flask method?:confused:

We have pictures and proof finally! I find this topic really very fascinating and a little confusing. If we can grow from seeds the old fashioned way then why do people spend so much time and money using the flask method?:confused:

In genral, controlled conditions will give you a much higher germination rate, so is a more efficient method of production.

Susan

very very nice:heart::heart::heart:

In genral, controlled conditions will give you a much higher germination rate, so is a more efficient method of production.

Susan

Ahh yes that makes a lot of sense! Thanks! I think sowing the old fashioned way also sounds like a lot of fun.

i understand that the more seedlings which survive the better the chance of having a stand out flower....but if you find a breeding line which displayed great flowers consistantly and then sow seeds the old fashioned way. my thought is that these seedlings would be very vigorous and produce great flowers.

why should seedlings that survive the old fashioned way have better flowers??

looks nice.....i can't wait to see if i get a seed pod.

Thank you Valenzino! The plant and the seedlings that I saw looked very much like your roth and seedlings!

Those plants look great! How big are they now?

newgrower........i was saying that if you found a nice breeding line....which means that individuals of that line consistanly produce flowers of nice quality. then sow the seeds naturally you would theoretically have a plant which has the genetic potential to produce outstanding flowers and has alot of vigor, because you have put selective pressure (to germinate and thrive) on it from the beginning. ie. only the strongest survive, but the preface of this theory is that the seedlings must have the genetics to produce quality flowers.

I'd love to try it...however, the way I water normally i'd worry the seeds would just wash out of the pot.

Thats pretty cool that we can sow the seeds without the flasking...:cool:

Andalusian--
Ahh okay, I guess I didn't get that.. :S

We have pictures and proof finally! I find this topic really very fascinating and a little confusing. If we can grow from seeds the old fashioned way then why do people spend so much time and money using the flask method?:confused:

Those plants look great! How big are they now?

I'd love to try it...however, the way I water normally i'd worry the seeds would just wash out of the pot.

To newbie:
without flasking method probably 95% of Paphs(particularly species) will not germinate...manytimes also difficult to germinate with flasking method!

To casey:
the ones on Phrag pot are already adult and nearly all flowered(are phrag longifolium and grande;photo is quite old)
the ones on roth pot,are much slower(are Paphs,and I am surprised to see that are 2 different:few are hybrids and some are probably roths,in that period I was away and many seed pods opened on that bench).

To Justin:
You are right:all the natural germinations I had(a totally of 20 + or -) happened always in a particular bench in wich I grow semi-hydro(NFT System) so the plants take water only from below and are constantly wet.

This is a very useful and informative thread I have learned a lot and hope I can grow some of my own seedlings someday!

i just wanted everyone to know that i'm not trying to say that flasking is bad....i understand that flasking is a valuable tool and without flasking the orchid world would not be where it is today. i just thought that maybe doing it the old fashioned way would be fun for the home hobbyist.

The old fashioned way still sounds like a fun thing to do but I also understand the benefit of the flask method now.

Very interesting topic!

wow now this is very interesting!!! I like to try this one day that would be cool!!

The old fashioned way works as the pictures have proven but the flask method will give your more surviving seedlings under the controlled conditions.

It definitely is possible, but it just isnt as practiced because of the lower yields.

Very interesting and cheap way of growing your own seedlings from seeds...also sounds like a lot fun!

This is all very interesting. I'm glad you brought it up.

has anyone seen Cypripediums germinate this way in cultivation, near exisiting Cyps or away from them in potting mixes or in the garden?

I understand that fungi spores are everywhere and that orchids will only germinate if the right mycorrhizal fungi is present in the soil. I've also learnt by a leading group of fungi specialists here in Australia that did a study of what fungi was actively growing here at the Botanic garden. They looked at our Australian native forests which attractive native fungi and looked at our exotic woodland garden eg American and European. The leaf litter here attracted exotic fungi and was seen when producing its mushroom caps. This was very interesting, they thought the same too!!

Im thinking that unpasturised soil mixes with leaf litter from oaks and pines mixed in with it will provide a media for the many suitable fungi and mycorryzal to grow.

Just a theory but worked on Dactylorhiza in a unpasturised composted bark and sand mix, these were away from any Dact's that i have which dont produce seed anyway so never had any germinate the natural way. 1% germination from thousands of seed is good enough for me.

I would like to try it on Cyps and see if it works.

cheers

that sure is food for thought...thanks for the info

has anyone seen Cypripediums germinate this way in cultivation, near exisiting Cyps or away from them in potting mixes or in the garden?

I understand that fungi spores are everywhere and that orchids will only germinate if the right mycorrhizal fungi is present in the soil. I've also learnt by a leading group of fungi specialists here in Australia that did a study of what fungi was actively growing here at the Botanic garden. They looked at our Australian native forests which attractive native fungi and looked at our exotic woodland garden eg American and European. The leaf litter here attracted exotic fungi and was seen when producing its mushroom caps. This was very interesting, they thought the same too!!

Im thinking that unpasturised soil mixes with leaf litter from oaks and pines mixed in with it will provide a media for the many suitable fungi and mycorryzal to grow.

Just a theory but worked on Dactylorhiza in a unpasturised composted bark and sand mix, these were away from any Dact's that i have which dont produce seed anyway so never had any germinate the natural way. 1% germination from thousands of seed is good enough for me.

I would like to try it on Cyps and see if it works.

cheers

I've never done any seeding myself, and have only seen it happen successfully once. (and he has wild-collected plants from adopted collections from back in the day, yada yada, excuses...anyay)

As far as Cypripediums, someone gave a at my OS about growing cyps. He recommended:
1. Obtaining dry seeds.
2. Take an old cardboard slide holder (slide as in slide projector) and make "windows" with pieces of pantyhose or similar material (glue them on, making the widows seal tight)
3. Place dry seeds of your desire in your contraption, seal shut with glue, duct tape, etc.
4. Plant this whole window-rig-with-seeds under a wild cyp. Mark it, and come back and check in a year. You will likely have growth, and you can now process the micro-plants as though you had obtained them by more orthodox means.

He's gotten thousands of propagated cyps this way, so I imagine it works...might need a little tweaking, but this is the general concept.

Happy growing-
Chris

Those are some nice tips Chris and welcome to the slipper orchid forum!