if an alba form is crossed with a non-alba (i'm using albino, alba interchangably)
for example, a making a primary hybrid, will the non-alba form contribute all the colors
or is there some hold-over over color from the alba

i dont know with plants but with reptiles if you cross an albino with a regular the offspring will be 100% het. for albino wich means the offspring will carry the gene 100% so if you cross teh siblings you should get 1/2 albino. but again it is with reptiles. so i hope you get a plant response

It seems to hold up well with plants too. Do you know if your non alba plant is carrying any alba genes?


The generational time with orchids is longer than most herps, so it will take allot longer to see the results. When I was in the zoo biz it seems like you could get a burmese python up to breeding size faster than a paph. I can remember when the first bunch of albino burms. were hatched, I bet it was no more than 6 years after the discovery of the first albino parent.

i saw a picture of what i think was primilinum v. alba x parishii and the color looked like it all came from parishii
i didn't know if it may have been the parishii's dominance in terms of colors or if it was that it is the only one with colored genes in it

Hello, with orchids, the albino genes (for the most part) are recessive, which means the plant has to have 2 copies, or the normal colored form will appear.
For example
Let A = Albino Gene
Let C = Colored Gene

All genes in all cells in complex organisms are arranged into pairs, although the genes are not necessarily identical.
So the possibilities for the albino/color genes in an orchid are: AA, AC, CA, or CC

The only way that the flower will be albino is if it has the AA pair, all the others will be the normal colored type.
Most of the colored types out there are CC (the albino gene is rather rare, and only manifests itself in high numbers by artificial breeding).

So, the first cross (F1) will most likely be AA (from the albino parent) x CC (from the colored parent)
Since every seed will get 1 gene from each parent, every F1 seed will be AC.
These will manifest normal coloration.

When siblings are crossed the second generation (F2) will be the result of AC x AC
These genetic makeup of these seedlings will be one of 3 types:
AA - 1/4 - albino flowers
AC - 1/4 - colored flowers
CA - 1/4 - colored flowers
CC - 1/4 - colored flowers
The three types of colored flowers are indistinguishable, so the overall results will be 1/4 albino and 3/4 regular colored for the F2 generation.

This is how primary albino hybrids are made, and is especially useful if there is no albino form known for one of the species parents.

Hope this helps

--Stephen

Primulinum may be a special case.

It think the nominal form (sometimes refered to as flavum) is considered an albino. Supposedly it is the dominant form in the wild, and crosses with the purple form yield predominantly flavum (???)

So in a hybrid cross with this species you may see more of a blend of colors. In general there may be more unpredictability of results with interspecific or intergeneric hybrids since the color genes may be on different chromosomes, and have nothing to do with each other??? I'm really just guessing on this one.


But if you stay within a species and cross albinos with non albinos, you see non albinos in the first generation (but they are carying the abino gene).


Silence882's demonstration is basic Mendalian genetics, which was origionally done with pea plants. Which has held up well for most species over the centuries.

If colour suppression is the goal then maybe it is better to start with semi-albas and not the true albino. For example in F.C.Puddle it is P insigne var sanderae that contributed to the colour suppression & not var sanderianum, the true albino.

HI. Pigment inheritance in Paphs is far more complex than simple Mendelian Genetics . Alba forms can be alba due to mutations in the pigment production sequence and the actual genes for specific pigments intact. Different alba forms may be mated and produce normal colored progeny in subsequent generations with very few alba forms appearing. This is because each parent corrected the problem present in the other. One has to know the breeding results of a specific parent in some cases to know whether breeding F2 plants will result in additional alba progeny.

Some partially or totally dominant albinos may exist as well. Insigne sanderianum as an example was a totally dominant albino. Finding the original one is very difficult, but some green complex paphs are quite similar in their breeding..

If someone could tell me if I'm correct in the following, I would appreciate it:
Albinos are caused by a mutation in one of the genes that is involved in the anythocyanin production pathway. The mutation prevents a key protein from being functional and anthocyanins are never produced. The genes in the anthocyanin production pathway each are considered to be part of a 'group'. In order for an albino x albino cross to produce albino offspring, the gene mutation must be in the same group in each parent. If not, normally colored offspring will result.
However, if you were to cross an albino x normal and then do a sib cross of the offspring, the albino genes, having originated from the same source, must be in the same group. Therefore, one should expect 1/4 albinos.
Also, if one were to cross an albino x albino and produce colored offspring, you can assume that the genes are in different groups. If a sib cross of the offspring is then made, then 7/16 of the offspring should be albino, one of which will have both pairs of albino genes. To figure out which plant has both sets, you would then have to cross the albino grandchildren back to the grandparents, and whichever grandchild produced albino offspring with both grandparents would have to have both sets.

As for plants that demonstrate anthocyanin suppression (insigne fma. sanderae, sukhakulii 'Paleface'), I don't know how they work.... I assume it is also some sort of gene mutation, but is it somewhere in the anythocyanin production pathway like the albinos? Or is it a separate gene that somehow interferes with production? An article from the early 90's on white complex breeding said the exact mechanisms were unknown, but I am hoping someone knows of newer research exploring the topic.

Any help or literature pointers on this matter would be appreciated.

--Stephen