I read some recent articles by Dr. Guido J. Braem about the species' from the section Phragmipedium; the "caudatum-group". In these articles he reviews the original literature and descriptions, which are mainly in German, and his conclusion is that the entities now known as wallisii and warscewiczianum (or should I say warszewiczianum) are missapplied. Cause for all this, according to Braem, is the inadequacy of some of the original descriptions but mainly the incorrect translation of the original German texts in the past.

In his articles Braem comes to the following conclusion:
Current Phrag. caudatum is correctly named Phrag. caudatum. The same for Phrag. lindenii and Phrag. exstaminodium. For the other entities things are completely different. The entity currently know as wallisii should actually be called warszewiczianum. And the entity we know today as warszewiczianum has never been described and therefor Braem et all describe this entity as Phrag. popowii.

If these corrections are excepted by other taxonomists and the Orchid Registrar, things could become quite confusing to say the least when it comes to the proper identification of the involved entities. When I say involved entities I also mean hybrids and the awards that are issued for some of them. We could be in for some fun...

That is very interesting! I don't suppose they could have decided to get rid of the really difficult one to spell, no? That would just be too easy, and less confusing, wouldn't it? :lol:

Those silly taxos...I wonder what will happen. I still have a hard time just finding "Phrag. warscewiczeanum" and not "Phrag. caudtatum var. warsc." when searching around sometimes. Just imagine the confusion *this* will cause!

Thanks for the update, Rob!

I had talked to Guido when he came to our meeting as a speaker a couple years ago. He is a very smart guy, and always presents a good case for his opinions and I really liked his concept of using taxons as a way of saying a name is in the eye of the repotter.
Unfortunately, he is a stickler for what a plant should be according to the nomenclatural rules of priority...and he didn't seem too concerned with anything else like judging and registration of hybrids. Like his wanting to change Paph. callosum to Paph. crossii because technically this was its first valid name, although most other taxonomists(not just orchids) agree that a well known plant with a well known name should stay just that, despite what it was unknowingly validly published as a hundred years ago.
I am sure that technically he is right...but we need a statute of limitations on changing names once something is so well known by a certain name. I change my tags for no one, lol.
Jon

[quote="Rob Zuiderwijk"]The entity currently know as wallisii should actually be called warszewiczianum. And the entity we know today as warszewiczianum has never been described and therefor Braem et all describe this entity as Phrag. popowii.

This freaks me out. I will probably loose sleep.

In light of recently discussed events, it makes me totally nuts! :shock:

I wonder how much money is involved for Guido to decide to change names? :?

Can anyone say Topperi?

I too read this my ??? is where does sanderae Fit ?? It seems to have gone :(

he didn't seem too concerned with anything else like judging and registration of hybrids.

Thanks goodness. :clap:

I too read this my ??? is where does sanderae Fit ?? It seems to have gone :(

Well, in my house the sanderae is still the lighter form of caudatum, no matter what those silly taxos say. :lol:

Yes that whole article seemed to me to just want to confuse the ordinary grower after buying a plant with a label A B or C .
Now the whole registing process of new hybrids is now in disarray what are we to do get D and A on every new registion
Again my ?? is is this about Updating or Upstaging?? :mad: :mad: :mad:

There is an article by Robert Dressler in the current issue of Orchid Digest. I have only skimmed, and clearly that isn't enough as I am completely befuddled by all the naming issues! I'm not sure from the article what plant Robert is actually referring to as Chinela, the Panamanian common name, but that is the focus of the article.

:confused:

I believe his Chinella is warscewiczianum...but I may just start saying Chinella as well. Then I could have a dark chinella, a white chinella, a yellow chinella, a staminodless dark chinella, and a pouchless white chinella.

I am so glad I never persued a career in taxonomy...that naming by priority with less than prime material from too many years ago would drive me even more crazy than I already am.

Jon

I think I'm going to call mine Chinchillas from now on. :roll: Btw, aren't chinchillas native to South America also? I think they are very cute.

I believe his Chinella is warscewiczianum...but I may just start saying Chinella as well. Then I could have a dark chinella, a white chinella, a yellow chinella, a staminodless dark chinella, and a pouchless white chinella.

I am so glad I never persued a career in taxonomy...that naming by priority with less than prime material from too many years ago would drive me even more crazy than I already am.

Jon

Mmmm, that's what I thought also, but then, well, I got confused! :lol:
He makes a point of not trying to confuse but the photos included make it all that more confusing to me! Hahaha, I agree so much about taxonomy....at any rate, since "our" new warsce is so huge, this has been on my brain lately. Perhaps we have Phrag. caudatum var. warcsewizeanum (aka popowii) var. gynormousiii. :roll:

I think I'm going to call mine Chinchillas from now on. :roll: Btw, aren't chinchillas native to South America also? I think they are very cute.

Peter, you are such a goof! :poke:
Yes, chinchillas are native to the Andes just like our Phragmipediums! However, chinela means "slipper" in Spanish. Just in case you were curious (which you generally are!)

:lol: Thanks for the Spanish lesson! I didn't know that.

:lol: Thanks for the Spanish lesson! I didn't know that.
(don't laugh) I only knew because I googled it last night and got all these Spanish slipper shopping sites (as in for your feet) :embarass:

Well, now we know. :lol:

I wonder how much money is involved for Guido to decide to change names? :?

Can anyone say Topperi?

I heard 10 thousand smackers? I wonder how many deutschmarks that comes out to these days, lol.

With 10 thousand smackers you could get yourself a few nice chinchila coats.

One of the last issues of AOS magazine had some Phrag family trees based on DNA analysis.

That is also worth comparing to the morphometric comparisons.

With 10 thousand smackers you could get yourself a few nice chinchila coats.

Or, start a Save the Chinchillas anti-fur campaign!

Speaking of that, the other night my fav. sushi bar had SEAL! :shock:
I didn't try it! (Peter, SO and I had a good laugh about the GW seal debate w/ Marianne!) :lol: Just so there is no confusion, I am all for the rights of seals!

seals eat gamefish. those salmon don't stand a chance.
there aren't enough killer whales around to control the seals.
all those conservation and animal rights people value seals more than humans.
down with seals.

but i won't eat them raw.

With 10 thousand smackers you could get yourself a few nice chinchila coats.

One of the last issues of AOS magazine had some Phrag family trees based on DNA analysis.

That is also worth comparing to the morphometric comparisons.

Rick,

Can you tell me which AOS magazine that is? I'm interested in reading it, so I have to know which one it is.
Thanks in advance.

Rob Zuiderwijk.

E-Mail : rob_zuiderwijk@phragweb.info
Website : PhragWeb - The Phragmipedium WebSite.
(http://www.phragweb.info)

Rob,
It is in the February '05 issue - Phrag. kovachii article, p. 132.

Rob,
It is in the February '05 issue - Phrag. kovachii article, p. 132.

Heather,

Thanks for the very quick response.
I've been away for quite some time and working my way through the messages in the forum.

B.T.W. I like the new look of the forum.

All the best from The Netherlands,

Rob

E-Mail : rob_zuiderwijk@phragweb.info
Website : PhragWeb - The Phragmipedium WebSite.
(http://www.phragweb.info)

Heather,

Thanks for the very quick response.
I've been away for quite some time and working my way through the messages in the forum.

B.T.W. I like the new look of the forum.

Anytime!

Welcome back! Yes we've been busy and gathered many new members lately!
Thanks for the nice comments, and enjoy!

Rob,
That's a great little website you have there. :clap2: Tons of info and great pics. Keep up the good work.

Rob,
That's a great little website you have there. :clap2: Tons of info and great pics. Keep up the good work.

Thanks. If I could only find the time to add the other tons of info that I have available.
At the moment I'm very busy with stuff that priority over my website. :(

Rob Zuiderwijk

E-Mail : rob_zuiderwijk@phragweb.info
Website : PhragWeb - The Phragmipedium WebSite.
(http://www.phragweb.info)