I added another to the list today... a big division of roth 'Mont Milais' (pic below) this came from the closeout of Baker and Chantry... Can't wait to self and cross out this baby!

P. rothschildianum

DS6.5 (Z2135 ‘Rex’ x ‘Mont Milais’) x DS6.8 (Z2135 ‘Rex’ x ‘Mont Milais’) BS (2)
'Mont Milais' FCC/AOS
‘Sam’s Best’ x ‘Rex’ (BS) (2)
Taiwanese sib cross (4 gr BS)
‘Charles E’ x ‘Borneo’ select (3 gr BS)
‘Charles E’ x ‘Borneo’ non-select (2 gr BS)
‘Chukar’ (2 gr BS)
‘Da Guan Yuan’ x ‘Green Valley’ (3 gr BS)
‘Da Guan Yuan’ x ‘Green Valley’
‘Arthit’ x ‘Butterfly’ NBS (1)
‘International PT-1’ (‘Rex’ x ‘Mont Milais’) x (‘Val’ x ‘Mont Milais’) NBS (1)
(‘Charles E’ x ‘Borneo’) x (‘Rex’ x ‘Excelsior’) NBS (1)
‘Jamboree Zebra’ x ‘Perfection’ seedlings (3)
‘Wide Horizon’ x ‘Chester Hills/OZ’ seedling (1)
Z2135 (‘Rex’ x ‘Mont Milais’) x ‘RO-10’ seedlings (2)
‘New Bear’ x Z2135 (‘Rex’ x ‘Mont Milais’) seedlings (2)
‘Rex Jr’ x ‘MM Best’ seedlings (20)
‘Sam’s Choice’ x ‘MM Best’ seedlings (5)
‘Mont Milais’ x self seedlings (9)
‘Chester Hills/OZ’ x ‘Red Baron’ seedlings (10)*
*On order

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4584/rothmontmilaistw3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I am impressed by your roths collection :) Take care of the latest !

You have a very nice roth collection!

Thanks everyone--here's a group shot!

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/310/paphareauf9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6315/paphareaoj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The Jungle...

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9776/junglejq4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Wow nice collection!

Nice indoor setup Justin!

very very nice:heart::Party::heart:

awesome to see someone also afflicted with the roth bug. Your collection cont to grow and you have some nice roths there.

That MM though does not look like the real thing. I have seen the plant with my own eyes on a few occasions. I have also heard the description of the plant from numerous sources. That is the plant on ebay with over 24 inch leafspan? I would be seriously wary about its authenticity.

There are at least two clones being passed around as MM. They actually look very similar. Who knows which the real one is. The one that made the rex x mm is the one I would say since it made all those spectacular roths and is most valuable. Which ever clone that was is the one I would want. Anyways both mm clones are compact and produce similar blooms. I have seen both plants, that doesn't look like either of them. There is a chance I may be wrong but that is my opinion. Where did Baker and Chantry get mm from? Like I said there are many clones floating around as mm. There are two that are hard to tell apart and both are nice.
This one is highly unlikely to be either of those two clones since the plant is very uncharacteristic . I hope it is the real thing though. Good luck. Looks like from the size of the plant u will have a better idea soon.

Thanks I appreciate the feedback from a true expert-- indeed this plant was a gamble but time will hopefully tell.
best,
justin

Wow, very nice collection of roths and I can show it to my wife to prove that I'm not TOO adicted to roths with ONLY three (but I've got plans for more):cool:

Nice grow stand!! :thumbsup:
That's a big roth collection!!

I'm very impressed with your roth collection.

Great looking plants, Justin! :thumbsup:

Hi -just love allthose roths you have there I only have 3 - here is what a forma post was saying about the Mont Millais - they really are different not only in statue but the leaves are much tougher -i got mine late '98 it was barely an 1 1/2' seedling then -the other there is the roth Rex x Mont millias OZ 22135 of 12/94 -this too is still a seedling
these plants really test ones patience -
my other one is the Baron x Charles E.
Billie

awesome to see someone also afflicted with the roth bug. Your collection cont to grow and you have some nice roths there.

That MM though does not look like the real thing. I have seen the plant with my own eyes on a few occasions. I have also heard the description of the plant from numerous sources. That is the plant on ebay with over 24 inch leafspan? I would be seriously wary about its authenticity.


I would agree with the above assessment based on two things. First, roth MM is very distinctive in both its compact growth and leaves. If you'd like, I can take a photo for you to see.

Second, Will Chantry was a close friend of mine before he passed away in the mid 1990s. He did not own roth 'Mont Milais' so for it to have come from his collection would have been impossible.

Thanks for the information, Hien. Much appreciated.
Best,
Justin

Whether it is a real roth 'Mont Millais' or not, it is still a nice plant. I think the plants needs more light as the leaves are a bit elongated.

Paphman910

I was quite close to the people at Baker & Chantry, and to my knowledge they never had a piece of this cultivar. The only roth plants they had were the Tonkin's famous sib of 'Charles E' X 'Borneo' and perhaps a piece of 'Borneo'. They did have an amazing huge plant of Paph Saint Swithin that received an AM/AOS, I think the cultivar name was 'Evergreen". My guess is that your plant is probably a selfing of 'Mont Millais' if it is close to the tag and it didn't come from B&C,

I was quite close to the people at Baker & Chantry, and to my knowledge they never had a piece of this cultivar. The only roth plants they had were the Tonkin's famous sib of 'Charles E' X 'Borneo' and perhaps a piece of 'Borneo'. They did have an amazing huge plant of Paph Saint Swithin that received an AM/AOS, I think the cultivar name was 'Evergreen". My guess is that your plant is probably a selfing of 'Mont Millais' if it is close to the tag and it didn't come from B&C,

To be honest I feel that seller knew that plant was not mm. I messaged him a few times and he stopped replying when he realized I knew it wasn't. No argument either.

Have been following this thread for a short time. I don't know much about award winning roths so I'm sorry for my ignorance. But is MM considered the Gold standard for roths?

Have been following this thread for a short time. I don't know much about award winning roths so I'm sorry for my ignorance. But is MM considered the Gold standard for roths?

No but it seems to be in the parentage of most that are the best today. In other words it is an exceptional breeder creating great roths first generation from the wild. Use the search function and you will find many threads

No but it seems to be in the parentage of most that are the best today. In other words it is an exceptional breeder creating great roths first generation from the wild. Use the search function and you will find many threads

Ah understand and thanks for the explanation. Will certainly want to dig more info on this.

Nice plants and wonderful setup. Two questions, what happens to your excess water when you water the plants, and what lights do you use.

Hi Marilyn,

For lights, I use 250 watt metal halide, and fluorescent shoplights for seedlings underneath.

I am planning to expand to a second light stand, with another metal halide or maybe high pressure sodium. Probably will stick with metal halide--the plants grow GREAT under metal halide and flower well too.

I water twice a week usually. For heavy waterings, I carry each plant over to the kitchen sink. For most other waterings, the water drains into the humidity trays underneath the plants. It then evaporates out. You can see I have seedling trays under a piece of eggcrate that the plants rest on.

Best,
Justin

Here's an update on the purported "mont milias"...

Based on all the evidence above, the seller agreed that it could not be what was on the tag and kindly refunded my money.

I'm keeping the plant, but at a much more realistic price reflecting a no-name roth division (am guessing c.e x borneo but we'll see).

MANY THANKS to the SOF community for looking out for one of its own...(and also to my wonderful girlfriend who is most skillful in fixing my frequent mistakes).

Good information and lessons here...

Best,
Justin

Here's an update on the purported "mont milias"...

Based on all the evidence above, the seller agreed that it could not be what was on the tag and kindly refunded my money.

I'm keeping the plant, but at a much more realistic price reflecting a no-name roth division (am guessing c.e x borneo but we'll see).

MANY THANKS to the SOF community for looking out for one of its own...(and also to my wonderful girlfriend who is most skillful in fixing my frequent mistakes).

Good information and lessons here...

Best,
Justin
Glad to hear things were made right.

Thank you for the update!

Great looking Roth list!!!:cool:

John

Hi John,

Thanks—I’ve gotten more since then. Another BS Sam’s Best x Rex, (have 3 of these now), and more seedlings including Sam’s Choice x Eureka, Sam’s Delight x Black Star, and Knight Challenge x Titanic. Have a couple of his new flasks on order too. I’m most looking forward to the Rex x Perfection cross but the Canadian Club crosses look great too.

Sam is doing amazing stuff with the line breeding! Have you seen the new Baby Milais x Self seedlings? (a selfing of a selfing of MM). I’ll have to get a couple of those. I am just guessing but I’ll bet anything he’s got a MM Best x self coming. The MM Best cross has created some amazingly vigorous seedlings, such as Sam’s Choice x MM Best and MM Best x Rex Jr. I have some of these from flask that are absolutely busting out of their compots!

You have a wonderful collection, some really superb genetics.

How do the Taiwanese breeders rank in this regard? Over this side of the Pacific it can be a bit difficult getting hold of the crosses you have, and flasks from Taiwan are comparatively easy to get. One of the crosses listed as available at the Queensland show is Paph. rothschildianum 'Chau Chou' SM/TPS x sib 'Hulk' SM/TPS. I am not considering getting a flask but I am interested in getting opinions on how good these plants are likely to be.

Hi Paul:

Others with more knowledge can weigh in on this one, but from what i've seen the taiwanese roth breeding is excellent. There is a lot of crossover between what the American, Japanese, and Taiwanese roth breeders are working with.

From pictures I've seen the 'Hulk' clone you mention is definitely a good one.

You are right we are lucky here to have such great roth breeders in the US, and right now we are on the cusp of a new generation of excellent breeding. There are limitation in every country though on what's available--you guys have stuff that is hard to find here too.

I now have about 70 individual rothschildianum!!

I potted up both flasks I bought at the WOC -

Raven x Crystelle FCC/AOS - from Frank at Krull-Smith,

and Rex x self -from Sam at the Orchid Inn

The price was right on both of these flasks, and the flask themselves were excellent, with strong plants and roots everywhere.

I wanted a fine rothschidianum for a long time, and even though it may be 7 years before they bloom, I am happy that I now have fine bloodlines. Hopefully, fine plants will follow - see you in seven years!

Good luck with your new roth flasks Brian! I am betting it will be more like 5 years for some!

Paul- it is very difficult to source the really cutting edge Taiwan and Japan roths over here in flask. As seedlings ($50 and up for very small plants), it is not too hard- but flasks are not easy to get. Overall availability is low enough, that anyone who gets a flask is wise to grow the plants out for a year or two and then sell them for a lot of money.

I might be overgeneralizing, but when I think of the top Japan strains- I think color. And to me color is far more important than flower size or growth rate- two traits regularly touted in the sales of US breeding lines.

And of course a mix of the two is even better. This offering by Orchid Inn is pretty significant since it is the first time I have seen a general availability from one grower of a number of crosses with a good international mix of breeding lines.

Brian- the Rex x self should be great! I got one of those too and I am very excited about it. They are doing very well in compot and acclimated quite quickly. I hope you have the same good fortune with yours.

I might be overgeneralizing, but when I think of the top Japan strains- I think color. And to me color is far more important than flower size or growth rate- two traits regularly touted in the sales of US breeding lines.

You're right in that the Tokyo Orchid Nursery strains (there are other Japanese strains aside from those that came out of TON, though they are generally not available to us in the US as flasks or seedlings) do have great colour. However, the size is also there. P. rothschildianum 'Perfection' was awarded a FCC by the AOS and at the time, measured 29.3cm. This is in line with "American" bred rothchildianums that have been awarded. A review of all the roth awarded since 2001 shows only 3 plants that were above 30cm. (There were a few in the 30.something range, but only 3 above 30. They were 31, 33 and 34cm). The clones 'Canadian Club' and 'Giant Wings' also had very good natural spreads right around the 30-32cm range.

Nice collection!:woohoo:

Ramon:D

Hi John,

Thanks—I’ve gotten more since then. Another BS Sam’s Best x Rex, (have 3 of these now), and more seedlings including Sam’s Choice x Eureka, Sam’s Delight x Black Star, and Knight Challenge x Titanic. Have a couple of his new flasks on order too. I’m most looking forward to the Rex x Perfection cross but the Canadian Club crosses look great too.

Sam is doing amazing stuff with the line breeding! Have you seen the new Baby Milais x Self seedlings? (a selfing of a selfing of MM). I’ll have to get a couple of those. I am just guessing but I’ll bet anything he’s got a MM Best x self coming. The MM Best cross has created some amazingly vigorous seedlings, such as Sam’s Choice x MM Best and MM Best x Rex Jr. I have some of these from flask that are absolutely busting out of their compots!
Justin,
No I have not seen it yet but will be on the look out for it. :cool:

John

Justin,
No I have not seen it yet but will be on the look out for it. :cool:

John


MM x self are not very vigorous. These are words that came from a grower who has prob grown more than any other person. So I trust them and would be really hesitant with mm best times self.

Great Roth. collection Justin. Pardon my ignorance,but, where the heck will you keep them all when they reach flowering maturity. i.e. presuming that they are grown indoors. We do not experience the indoor experience very much here in Aussie and it always amazes me the way you guys grow and flower your plants so successfully.

Hi Eric,

You are right I don't have a greenhouse but am an indoor grower. Indoors is great because you can control temperature/humidity/light so perfectly.

I can fit about 60 mature plants on the main shelf of my lightstand under a metal halide, and around 100 seedlings on the bottom shelf under fluorescents.

I'm building a second light stand this spring with another HID to accommodate the next crop, but down the road I hope to devote a spare bedroom with hps or metal halide hanging from the ceiling, kind of like what Peter has if you ever have seen pictures of his growroom.