I'm really starting to liking phrags but I'm afraid to try one. I came across this one in spike on ebay! http://cgi.ebay.com/Phrag-kovachii-x-Cape-Sunset-in-spike_W0QQitemZ130176264965QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m130176264965

Another one http://cgi.ebay.com/Phrag-kovachii-x-Living-Fire-BS_W0QQitemZ130176267840QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item13 0176267840
Are they difficult to grow and flower?

I saw those earlier. They are pretty big and expensive. You might be better off trying some besseae hybrids which are going to be a lot less expensive. By the time you master that the kovachii hybrids will probably have come down in price significantly.

e-spice

:iagree: with Geff. There are all kinds of BS phrag hybrids that could be had for $50 and under. I personally don't think phrags in general are hard to grow & bloom, the kovachii hybrids have been easier than the species, which came as no surprise but you're not going to know what you get until it blooms. I just attended a talk/presentation that Glen Decker gave & he feels that it takes until the 3rd bloom cycle for a plant to be fully mature & then one knows the true quality of the flower. Check out our sponsors, I (& other forum members) have gotten BS plants from all of them. Flasksbychuckacker.com has a divisions listing. I've been up to Acker's when his awarded clone of Grande was blooming. I was blown away, it was a most impressive plant! It is a BIG plant so one needs room, the blooms were the size of my hand!

Paul,

I honestly question whether that plant is in spike. It doesn't say that it is, it says 'BS'. If it was in spike, I'm certain it would clearly say (herald!) that. I think that what looks like a spike is really a new leaf. I found growing phrags to be very easy, but I agree with the others, that you should try a less expensive one first. That's what I did too. Knowing that I was going to try a kovachii, I started with other phrags to make sure that I could at least grow them. Get yourself something less expensive to learn on, and you'll have no problem finding a kovachii in the future.

Carolyn

The title does say 'In Spike' and the picture clearly shows that it is in spike.

I guess $200 is a far price. Plants in spike usually comand a premium, then when you add in the parents.... However, shipping plants is a great way to blast spikes.

Kyle

Thanks for the replies! I wasnt going to bid but just curious. I think Tom's offer in the for sale forum is a much better deal but for now I'm going to try and perfect my paph growing skills first.

For me, phrags are much easier to grow. Paphs can be fincky. It took me a few years to get them down, and even now, I don't grow them as well as I would like. Phrags seldom have problems.

The title does say 'In Spike' and the picture clearly shows that it is in spike.

I guess $200 is a far price. Plants in spike usually comand a premium, then when you add in the parents.... However, shipping plants is a great way to blast spikes.

Kyle

Kyle,

I see 'Phrag. kovachii x Living Fire BS' as the title, where do you see 'in spike'? Could be a spike, I just don't see that it says that...

Carolyn

There are two different auctions. The first one says:

"Phrag. kovachii x Cape Sunset in spike"

The second one, is not in spike and the photo confirms.

Kyle

There are two different auctions. The first one says:

"Phrag. kovachii x Cape Sunset in spike"

The second one, is not in spike and the photo confirms.

Kyle

I only followed the 2nd link, so I stand corrected. My comments about the auction are for the 2nd link/Living fire plant.

My comments about gaining experience stand for both.

Thanks Kyle,
Carolyn

In a few years that same plant will be $40. I have no intention of buying a kovachii or its hybrids until then. Just think....a few years from now you will go to a local orchid show and 5 different vendors will be offering kovachii plants in bloom for a reasonable price.

Yeah...easy to say and everyone wants one now, but Phrags grow fast enough that it wont be all that long before kovachii is almost as common as besseae.

In a few years that same plant will be $40. I have no intention of buying a kovachii or its hybrids until then. Just think....a few years from now you will go to a local orchid show and 5 different vendors will be offering kovachii plants in bloom for a reasonable price.

Yeah...easy to say and everyone wants one now, but Phrags grow fast enough that it wont be all that long before kovachii is almost as common as besseae.

:welcome: to the forum David!
I agree that the price will be dropping but in a few years? I think it will have a BIGGER impact than bess but it's still a supply & demand, how long did it take for bess to drop? Bess has been around for what, 12+ years now?
There are those that want instant gratification or be one of the 'firsts', so they will pay the price!

I didn't want to wait until the price comes down. I bought a couple because I also enjoy growing them. It is exciting to see new growth on a kovachii. I may buy blooming size plants later.

In a few years that same plant will be $40. I have no intention of buying a kovachii or its hybrids until then. Just think....a few years from now you will go to a local orchid show and 5 different vendors will be offering kovachii plants in bloom for a reasonable price.

Yeah...easy to say and everyone wants one now, but Phrags grow fast enough that it wont be all that long before kovachii is almost as common as besseae.

Not only will they be more affordable, but the quality will improve. If you compare the selective bred Phrag besseaes to the early plants, they grow better and have fuller flowers.
It is not unlikely that breeding will create color forms and full formed blooms in the next 10 years.

Of course, the feeding frenzy is on! Even though I believe they will get much better in time, I bought a flask last spring myself. They seem to be easy to grow as any Phrag hybrid, and easier than Phrag besseae in my conditions. My largest plants are about 7" spread with most of them about 4" . About 1/3 of them are between 5-7", so they are pretty vigorous. I should see blooms after a couple more years.....

Am I mistaken or did those kovachii hybrid auctions get ended early? I was watching them to see how they would do and then suddenly they are over and no bids showing. Very strange.

Of course I thought them strange to begin with since I have yet to hear of anyone with BS kovachii hybrids and offering them for sale. I doubt many breeders even have a big population of such things yet.

As for the general comments- I agree for the most part.

A lot will depend on how good a parent kovachii proves to be. If kovachii is a roth-like parent, then I think prices will hold and increase since top breeders will keep all the plants they can to flower out the best for awards and future breeding. There might be some downward price pressure, but the best crosses would get more and more expensive.

But if it ends up being more like sanderianum has turned out as a parent- I think prices will come down very quickly.

I expect it will be another 18-24 months before we know, but the harder it is to buy them- the more I will tend to think breeders are finding these hybrids a gold mine.

Either way, buying now you are paying the top price AND there is a lot of uncertainty. Kovachii is going to have to be one hell of a proven parent for today's prices to sustain themselves long term. I did get 3 kovachii x wallisii for kicks- and because they came from Fox Valley so I know it will be the good stuff, but I am not planning to buy any others until I see some results.