I have posted this elsewhere, but I wanted to have a discussion on some of the crosses listed on this

http://easyorchids.com/downloads/Nov07%20flask%20list.pdf

The one that really jumps out at me is stonei x anitum. Also the phil alba looks good.

What do you more knowledgeable growers think?

Hi Paul.

The philippinense alba with the other albas listed could be interesting. Or the mastersianum.

The one I would like to get my hands on is the hangianum. Would probably have the name changed to keep MAF happy and get it into the country. ;)

Where do I start... wait, i have to try and breathe again!

wow, all the species, and then the sanderianum x anitum, oh and the philippinense albas and..

whew, I need a glass of water!

Thanks for the list Paul! Now I'm off to sell the house!

If you are good at growing the multis from flask go for it. I don' t think you could go wrong. Personally I find them too hard and too slow under my conditions. So I wouldn't waste my money. I need them as large as possible.

David

After just a quick look I'd go for bellatulum x armeniacum or the mastersianum. Naturally, I would for any of the hangianum species or crosses but they aren't legal here. Personally, I can't grow a flask to save my life.

There are too many choices.........How about one of each? For white complex crosses, it doesn't get much better than the Paph White Knight x Elfstone and x Stone Lovely. These will be state of the art...........

:iagree::iagree::iagree: with Bill! They have something for everyone's taste!

Great flask list but the quantity of plants per flask is not noted???
Might just have to order some Maudiae's.

I am inclined to side with David (Emydura) and be a bit shy with ordering anything. I have had a few flasks in the last year or so, and I do tend to lose a few seedlings, when they cost $3 each it is irritating, but if they cost $15 each it would be distressing to say the least. I think I'll just continue to get more mature plants as and when I can find them.

My other problem is that I don't know where I'll be in 10 years time, it would be a shame to sell them without even flowering one.

Great flask list but the quantity of plants per flask is not noted???
Might just have to order some Maudiae's.

I bought 6 or so flasks from In-Charm when they came to Australia last year. From memory each flask had about 20 plants in it.

The samderianum flask was only about $140 on that current list which makes me wonder if there is less plants in that one.

David

I am inclined to side with David (Emydura) and be a bit shy with ordering anything. I have had a few flasks in the last year or so, and I do tend to lose a few seedlings, when they cost $3 each it is irritating, but if they cost $15 each it would be distressing to say the least. I think I'll just continue to get more mature plants as and when I can find them.

My other problem is that I don't know where I'll be in 10 years time, it would be a shame to sell them without even flowering one.

I'm still a beginner with flasks. The flasks I ordered from In-charm last year have been a bit of a battle. I have really struggled to grow good root systems. I asked John Robertson about my problems and he told me not to grow them in bark as you will rot the roots which is what I had done. He uses spahgnum moss. I tried this, but the truth is I can't grow anything in spagnum moss let alone small Paph seedlings. So this didn't work. I then repotted them in the Bunnings CHC with come cocopeat added however this proved a failure as well (too much moisture I think).

Then Tinonee Orchids recently started selling higher quality CHC's. I repotted them all in the small size with a little spagnum moss added. They finally seem to be picking up. I checked a few yesterday and new roots are starting to appear. So hopefully they will start to kick on.

So I am going to wait to see how these plants grow before ordering anymore flasks. I want to be confident I have the mix right.

Two of the flasks from In-Charm (helenae and delanatii) were total disasters. The plants basically all collapsed within one day. From bacterial rot I think. There was nothing I could do. The plants in the helenae flask in particular were way too advanced. Many of them had 5 or 6 growths per plant. I only have 3 or 4 plants each left out of the whole flask.

David

I've never tried paph flasks, but I have done alright with the various genera I have bought. How did you treat the seedlings when you deflasked them? Did you spray or drench them with any fungicides? What time of year did you deflask?

I have only deflasked into the CHC/ coarse fibre mix I use for Pleurothallids, and that seems to be plenty wet enough without adding chopped moss.

If I do take the plunge I would value your experience.

paul:

do a search on this forum for a thread called "the sanderianum chronicles"
that will tell you everything you need to know about deflasking paphs

I've never tried paph flasks, but I have done alright with the various genera I have bought. How did you treat the seedlings when you deflasked them? Did you spray or drench them with any fungicides? What time of year did you deflask?

I have only deflasked into the CHC/ coarse fibre mix I use for Pleurothallids, and that seems to be plenty wet enough without adding chopped moss.

If I do take the plunge I would value your experience.


Much of what I did is described in the following link. If there any other questions just ask. Also look at the sanderianum chronicles as JUstin said. You still have to find out what works for you though. I've followed other people's advice and struggled.

http://www.slipperorchidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7074&

Overall I was happy with my setup. I think my problem is getting the potting mix and watering right. Once I have sorted this out I hopefully will be fine. I think small CHC is the go. If it is small enough you probably won't need the extra moss.

I deflasked them in Spring as the weather was warming up. If you grow them in a warm setup like me you don't need to worry about the time of year. I sprayed a light fungicide on them after deflasking.

I think you are better off beginning with Maudiae hybrids. These are cheap and the easiest to grow. I have 2 flasks and these are easily doing the best. If you can't grow on a Maudiae flask then you are no hope in succeeding with anything else.

David

Thanks guys, I'll get reading.

Growing from flask is a learned art, and small seedlings can be destroyed in a short amount of time. It is important to grow them in fairly low light with good moisture at the beginning with warm temperatures. Not hot or cold, not bright light, not soggy or too dry.

The best way to learn is to buy some compots that are grown up a bit and try to grow them. If that seems to work, then try transplanting flasks to compots. This takes a bit of practice and most of the seedlings are lost soon after taking them out. It helps quite a bit if the plants are vigorous and well grown in the bottle. Small flasklings are very difficult to grow and will sulk for quite a while.

I learnt the hard way with Paph flasks too. Since learning, the only way for me to deflask Paphs is to remove all the seedlings and agar intact. Clean off as much agar as you can with your fingers and wash off gently some of the rest in a bucket of luke warm water. Keeping the plants intact, put the lot into a prepared compot to the correct level and fill in around the roots. Water and place in growing position, not too much shade or light. I have just started potting out plants from the last compots I did and on average I have lost one to two seedlings per compot of 25 - 30 plants over 20 compots. The lost ones I would suggest wouldn't have grown anyway.

I have done about 15 flasks in the last year, mostly Cymbidium species from Aussie labs. I haven't tried Paphs cos they are alot more expensive, and I wanted to make my mistakes with cheaper plants. Has anyone found anything about paph seedlings that means they need different treatment to anything else?

They aren't really different than anything else. They are tender and need to be treated like babies until they start growing roots and growths. You just have to be aware of the background of the hybrids and the requirements of the species.

I have purchased quite a few flasks from In Charm over a period of about five years. I agree with Bill Zimmerman. His comments apply to my own experience with paph flasks.
I seem to always have trouble with sanderianum and greyi seedlings-especially when they are first deflasked. My mortality rate for these two is high until they are about 12 months out of flask then they seem to really perk up. The availability of paph flasks in Aussie is basically limited to supplies from Taiwan. If anyone knows of other sources I would appreciate knowing about them.
I really believe that success with deflasking paph seedlings can only be made by learning about and remedying your mistakes and by providing adequate growing conditions and good growing techniques. One thing that I have found to be really beneficial is the provision of overhead fans which run 24/7. My own experience indicates that early Spring deflasking gives the best results. I only use small CHC as a potting media. It seems to promote strong root growtyh quicker than seedlings grown in bark mixes. Regards Wyruna

When you ask for another source, Eric, what do you feel you are missing from the Taiwanese suppliers?

Here in NZ we don't even have anyone able to import direct, let alone do the crossing and flasking, the market here is miniscule. We rely on people like Murray Shergold and Kevin Western coming over once in a while with a trunk full of flasks.

I am a CHC fan too, and have had excellent results deflasking into it.

Paul
Taiwan nurseries have a little way to go (in my opinion) with Complex paphs to catch up to the standard of English and American breeding. I know that they are using a lot of pods from one particular Aussie breeder but whether the progeny becomes available here at a realistic prices, is debatable. I have quite a lot of parvi, brachy, maudae and multi floral seedlings from reputable Taiwan nurseries. I was not aware that Murray Shergold was importing many paphs from Taiwan but I believe that he is importing from Thailand.
Does your employment require you to move arround the globe- you seem to have lived in quite a few interesting locations.
I have made arrangements to purchase flasks from USA when they become available shortly but have not been successful with UK nurseries to date. If anyone has known reputable contacts, I would appreciate any information.
Regards Wyruna

I talked to Murray a few weeks ago at an orchid fair in Auckland and he told me about the InCharm agency being just recently finalised. Interesting point about the complexes.

It was my Dad's job that had us moving around alot, I seem to have been badly bitten by the travel bug when growing up.