...for a hobbyist, that are legally available?

So lets say that a hobbyist has some cash to burn (not necessarily me, purely hypothetical). Which phrags are considered to be rare or very desirable for the hobbyist collector? They must be legally available, of course. But maybe they're only available from an 'other nation' source (I'm trying to get growers around the world to chime in), but importable via an orchid show/sales event. Or maybe a local vendor is secretly growing tiny little seedlings that may soon hit the market.

So y'all know I have kovachiis. And I drooled over Tom's vittatum. When I win the lottery, what are the very first phrags that I should look for to create a very special personal collection?

I love phrags, and need to learn more about them. What is rare or special?
What will no one else have? What should I seek out on Ebay that's a (true) rare offering? Even in a hybrid, what parent is exotic and exciting?

(How much $$ is in that piggy bank ;) ?)
Carolyn

Well first off, this weekend I am posting here some very robust kovachii for sale with nice leaf spans- so you want more of them :)

As for the truly rare and cutting edge- buy yourself a plane ticket to Peru and start making the rounds.

Phrags are pretty high profile and a small genus, so I doubt there are any major secrets. But you never know. In Masdevallias there are certainly a couple of absolutely drop-dead gorgeous species that you never see since they are ridiculously rare and have not taken well to cultivation outside of their very limited environment. I wanted to bring one into cultivation a few years ago (a snow white flower with huge tails and covered with tiny pink dots- not going to reveal the name though since I may still do the project), but I passed when I was quoted $2,000 for a team to go in and collect a few plants from the one secret site where it is known to grow. I know of one plant in the US, and it has never flowered for the owner who rightly takes pride in merely keeping it alive at this point.

I just say all this to let you know what you might be in for. From a Darwinistic standpoint (and I am a Darwinist in many ways), it is logical that a very rare plant that grows in very limited locations is very likely to be very difficult to grow outside of those locations since it has developed some sort of mechanism for surviving in very specific circumstances- or is not genetically predisposed to being readily adaptable to other areas.

And you have to go to the source if you want to know and see what all is out there. I have already had 3 reports from different sources that someone out there has a kovachii alba. Maybe it is true- maybe it isn't. But given the financial and prestige potential of such a plant, you can bet it won't be easy to track down or verify unless you go where the plants come from.

Thanks Tom for the info.

But my question was a little less serious, and meant to learn more about sought after or desired phrags. Again, back to Phrag. vittatum. Had Tom (Fox Valley) not posted about his seedlings in his sponsor area, I never would have heard of this plant, and now I know that it's a more unusual one to have in a collection.

I see pictures of beautiful plants posted here, and see those species and hybrids offered in a number of places. So what I'm asking is, 'What are some phrags that you usually don't see in a collection?'. Now that I know more, if I saw a Phrag vittatum on ebay, I would say 'wow! That one *is* rare'. So what other phrags deserve my admiration? (I know they all do ;) , but are the unusual ones?) Maybe some are an older style or hybrid, that you just don't see much of these days. Or fill in the blank: If you ever found a Phrag. _________ , GRAB IT!!!

If I was a very good girl, what might I ask for for Christmas?
Carolyn

Hi Carolyn.

That's an interesting question. I would say, vittatum has to be #1 - simply because there are so very few in cultivation, followed by d'alessandroi - simply because there are so few true d'alessandroi in cultivation, followed by andreetae - the new little white/pink species from Ecuador, followed by kovachii - although there are quite a few of them out there now that Piping Rock has been successful in propagating them.

Beyond these relative newcomers, the next thing would be to collect outstanding examples all of the other Phrag. species. There is a world of difference between a schlimii and a really good award quality schlimii. Ditto every other Phrag. species, caudatum, besseae, etc. As an AOS judge, I can tell you that based on my experience, very few orchid flowers are of award quality regardless of the Genus or species considered - maybe 1-2 % - even less are FCC/AOS quality. So I guess the short answer - if I were the one who won the lottery - is to collect the new stuff as long as it's legal - and collect the most outstanding examples of the other species if you can find them. The same pretty much holds true for hybrids.

Best,

I agree with Tom K that vittatum is probably the rarest Phrag species. I wonder how many more speices like kovachii are still hiding in the jungles of South America!

If $$ is not a concern, I'd go for OL's besseae "Rob's Choice"! :heart: To me, FCC species/hybrids are more appealing than rare species just because I can get a lot more cultural info to keep the "special" plant alive :fcrossed:

Forgot to mention Phrag. longifolium fma album. The discoverer of this beauty claims there is only one clone in existence.

Thanks Tom - I'll have to do some research on those...and then keep my eye out :)

Peter - New species are still being discovered, I wonder what the next 'kovachii' might look like? Wouldn't a pure white one be something?


Jorch - Truly stunning! But I don't think I've been that good ;)

Carolyn

I'm hoping the next major discovery will be a blue slipper. Or at least a slipper with blue in it. It's not that farfetched, considering the number of pink paphs and phrags...

There are rumors of a white Phrag kovachii in Europe, but if it exists it is being kept under wraps. Of course, it is an illegal plant if it exists since none of the seedlings are blooming size yet.
I agree with Tom that select, high quality examples of any Phrag are the most valuable for both growing and hybridizing. Personally I would probably rather own a Phrag longifolium of AM quality than a Phrag vittatum. It certainly would be much easier to grow!

Hi Bill,

One of my customers almost bought a division of that Pk "fma album". The entire bud was pure green and there was no color at the leaf base, so expectations were high for a pure green/white flower. Unfortunately, when the flower opened only the dorsal sepal and synsepal were white, while the petals and pouch were the normal red/purple color. The price prior to blooming was $ 5K as I recall. It still would be interesting to self this clone.

As far as P. vittatum, we have learned a lot about the culture of this species over the years and the seedlings raised from art prop parents seem much less demanding (but still not easy). The habitat conditions are very unusual. The plants grow in a dry swamp, with roots exposed to a lot of moisture, but with very little rainfall - creating a condition where it is not unusual for fires to occur in spring. The best way to grow the potted seedlings is in a shallow pan of R/O water, repotting every 9-12 months into a low pH mix and adding powdered fireplace ash as a top dressing in the spring. Very light feeding - like 1/8 tsp/gal once a month, and _never_ watering from above so as to prevent water sitting in the crown of the plant as this can lead to crown rot very quickly.

Best Regards,

Forgot to mention Phrag. longifolium fma album. The discoverer of this beauty claims there is only one clone in existence.

Any more info on that one Tom? Do you know if this one has been divided or selfed?

e-spice

Hi Geff,

We did sell one division, so the mother plant probably won't be dividable again until early 2009. We selfed this plant earlier this year, however, and are pleased to announce that five flasks are currently in replate. We are hoping they will be ready to deflask in January, 2008, so seedlings may be available later that Spring. We are planning to offer the seedlings initially to SOF members in the U.S. and then to the domestic market at large. Unfortunately, we probably won't have enough of the selfings to offer to the export market. We may also have a couple of flasks available later in Spring, but it's too early to know for sure. The seedlings are growing well, but slow for a longifolium, as one might probably expect. The other bit of good news is that the Eric Young seedlings made with this longifolium and one of our best besseae fma flavum should also be ready in the Spring of 2008.

Thanks,

Tom,

Thanks for the information about Phrag vittatum. Of course, you tell me about the fireplace ash after I put in a gas insert! Guess I could go in the hills and find some campsites.....

I would be very interesting in both the Phrag longifolium album and Phrag Eric Young album when they are available depending on how many fingers I have to sacrifice. It would be good to get some genetic variability in the albinistic form if it is true that there is more than one example of an albino longifolium.

Hi Bill,

Good luck finding a campsite with a fire-pit up in the hills. It's probably easier to find someone with a natural fireplace, or to go out and collect dried weeds out in some prairie and use those (this is usually what I do). As far as the availability of other album clones of P. longifolium, I wish we could find another one for the genetic diversity. According to the discoverer, there is only one clone, regardless of the unsubstantiated claims we have seen. As far as pricing, it will all depend on how many we get growing well out of flask. I'd love to keep the prices as low as possible, espcially for our SOF members, but if we get as many long v albums as we got vittatums, it's going to be hard to offer them as cheaply as we would like. The Eric Young seedlings made with the long v album and the besseae v flavum should be cheaper, based on the germination rate.

Thanks, Tom

Tom,

Perhaps another avenue to some diversity would be a cross with a high quality but typical Phrag longifolium. An F2 sibling cross will produce some albinos and some range in size and vigor.

This is a great preview of what is to come with phrag breeding outside the kovachii craze. Im very interested in seeing the long v alba and besseae flv. Some great things to look forward too!

Bill,

Interestingly enough, I did do an out-cross with our Phrag. longifolium `Fernbrook' AM/AOS at the same time I selfed the album, but the capsule aborted at 30 days. I'll do this again with a different normally colored clone the next time the album blooms - probably in January. I won't self that album clone again any time soon, nor use it as a capsule parent for a long while - I was amazed at the amount of energy it expended in maturing that seed capsule as demonstrated by a dramatic slowdown of growth. Scared the heck out of me!

Best,

I'm loving this thread!! Soooooo informative! This is just what I hoped for :thumbsup:

Thanks all! Especially Tom :)

Carolyn