I'm not even sure if they really exist and I'm aware this subject has been discussed before so I'm curious how many of you want Paph x Phrag or Cyp hybrids created? What would you like seen made? I think a sanderianum x popowii cross should look amazing!

It's a toss up between No & Don't Care!:confused:
There are some registered but don't you find it strange that the only (far & few) pictures we ever see are really crappy quality? If there are that few that make it to blooming size then quite frankly I wouldn't want them. Don't we already have the best of both species? There's plenty of beautiful long petal phrags as well as paphs.

I chose yes and at the same I also feel I don't care because I agree to what you said. This should be interesting.

NO, because we already have beautiful phrags and paphs!
Plus, the ones that I have seen on the internet were pretty hidious!:p

Absolutely NOT! The whole idea of hybridizing Paphs and Phrags I find totally replusive! :Yuck:

NO, because we already have beautiful phrags and paphs!
Plus, the ones that I have seen on the internet were pretty hidious!:p

Yes, I too have seen those pictures and they are really hideous looking! And I'm still not convinced that they are really Paph/Phrag Frankenstiens! :lol:

Well, I am voting yes - simply because intergeneric combinations interest me. In some families (such as Vandaceous), they have led to the most wonderful hybrids (I have 3 seed pods going in this section at the moment).

What can we achieve with Paph x Phrag?
I really don't know, since so few (none?) have worked. However, if they can be made, I could visualize some new types of multiflorals - and perhaps faster growing than standard Paphs. The latter alone might provide an incentive to commercial growers.

Kim

I'm not sure so I picked dont care but it would be interesting to see them. I agree with Kim since Paphs are slow growing maybe crossing them with Phrags may speed up their growth habit?

I would like to know if the flowers of a Paph x Phrag last longer than a Phrag. The growingspeed of a Phrag with flowers that hold longer than Phrag, Wouldn't that be a winner?

I'd love to see some of these hideous crosses :eek: but I couldn't find any via Google. What should I search on? Does anyone have any pointers?

Oh, I voted 'Don't Care'. Maybe I should have waited to see the pictures to vote No ;)

Carolyn

I'd love to see some of these hideous crosses :eek: but I couldn't find any via Google. What should I search on? Does anyone have any pointers?

Oh, I voted 'Don't Care'. Maybe I should have waited to see the pictures to vote No ;)

Carolyn

Here is a LINK (http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/Special/enpxp.html).

I haven't seen that one!
I highly doubt that it is actually besseae x micranthum, it looks more like a cochlopetalum group x a micranthum hybrid.

I haven't seen that one!
I highly doubt that it is actually besseae x micranthum, it looks more like a cochlopetalum group x a micranthum hybrid.

Yes :iagree:!

I also want to see it.
Imagine red of besseae with heavy substance of some of the paphs.
Once there is a breakthrough, it will create thousand of very interesting combinations.
I think most paph hybrids have been done to exhaustion already.
So to create something strangely new, even something like Maudiae with besseae is very interesting. The hybrid may look nothing like your imagination/guess what it should look like in between the two parents.:confused:

Well, I am voting yes - simply because intergeneric combinations interest me. In some families (such as Vandaceous), they have led to the most wonderful hybrids (I have 3 seed pods going in this section at the moment).

What can we achieve with Paph x Phrag?
I really don't know, since so few (none?) have worked. However, if they can be made, I could visualize some new types of multiflorals - and perhaps faster growing than standard Paphs. The latter alone might provide an incentive to commercial growers.

Kim

Here is a LINK (http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/Special/enpxp.html).

AHHHH!!! That is hideous!!! LOL...I was wondering about this subject last night!!! Hhahahaha!!!

Thanks Peter! That is truly horrible :eek: :eek: :eek: !!!

If that is the best, then please, take it out of its misery!

If that is the best, then please, take it out of its misery!

LOL! I agree 110%!!

I really doubt that is a Paph crossed to a Phrag besseae. No way!

I think they don't look any worse than some of the single-genus hybrids some people love. Bring 'em on!! :thumbsup:

I like my paphs and phrags as separate species...so my answer is a big NO!

I don't think that any of the photos available on the web show true Phragmipaphiums. Thus, I find it say whether they would be "hideous" or not. All of the photos on the web appear to be straight-up Paph hybrids.

I think they don't look any worse than some of the single-genus hybrids some people love. Bring 'em on!! :thumbsup:
:iagree::iagree: I don't think Peter's link is hideous, in our ugly contest we've seen worse but we don't want to see it repeated with each blooming. I've never found any on the web, there's one poor quality photo in a slipper book I have & it does look more like a paph - flower & bloom wise. The mystery remains ...... do they really exist?????

Absolutely NOT! The whole idea of hybridizing Paphs and Phrags I find totally replusive! :Yuck:

Well said.

Enough ugly plants around already.

:iagree:

But wouldn't a cross between Besseae and something with long spindles look awesome if it worked out.

How many ugly hybrids are there of single species probably the percentige it fairly high, people have just found enough that are beautiful for us to forget the ugly ones.

I would be interested in such crosses because of the possible genetic diversity they could bring to future crosses (if fertile). Such breeding has been done in other related families such as Angraecoids, Vandaceous, Cattleya alliance, Maxillaria group, etc. Why shouldn't similar breeding be attempted in the Cypripedium group?

How many ugly hybrids are there of single species probably the percentige it fairly high, people have just found enough that are beautiful for us to forget the ugly ones.

.........QFT!

But wouldn't a cross between Besseae and something with long spindles look awesome if it worked out.

How many ugly hybrids are there of single species probably the percentige it fairly high, people have just found enough that are beautiful for us to forget the ugly ones.

There have already been LOTS of bess x long petaled phrag crosses made that are lovely -
China Dragon (bess x grande)
Ruby Slippers (caudatum x bess)
Sunset Glow x Grande are a few I have that come to mind. Others could easily add to this. We don't need phrag x paph crosses to arrive at this, we're already there!

I don't understand why people are so passionately opposed to the idea of crossing a Phrag and a Paph. If they turn out ugly, they turn out ugly. No harm done. The sun will still rise in the morning. Until you try, you won't find out. Is crossing a Phrag with a Paph really that radically different to crossing distantly related Paph groups such as the multi-florals with the Parvis?

I'd love to be able to combine the colour, hardiness and rapid growth of some of the Phrags with the multi-floral Paphs. Don't know if it can be done, but it is certainly worth a try.

David

I don't understand why people are so passionately opposed to the idea of crossing a Phrag and a Paph....

New things scare people.

I haven't read the whole thread but I think it would be interesting. Can you imagine a sanderiana or roth that is besseae color :heart:

Good luck. I always advise trying, and keep trying (Moir is my hero!). But apparently, something about these two genera presents a barrier to producing a hybrid that is beautiful. I agree, a round, bulldog-type the color of a besseae would be stunning (not that that is far away considering kovachii). But no one so far seems to have been able to make one that could be recognized as a beautful (or even pretty, or even attractive, hell - even NOT ugly) flower. Ugly flowers don't sell. So commercial hybridizers aren't likely to do it soon.

To any who really want to see these crosses made, why don't you make them??? Hybridizing is not hard, the number of professional flasking services is quite large, and most of yu have experience raising orchids from seedlings. You might need to raise 100-200 plants to get something decent (good luck getting that many), but aside from space and time, you are not limited.

Excelsior!

I was going to enter "Don't Care", but after all the judgmental and unfounded negative comments I have decided to say "YES!"

To say someone hates our is repulsed by something they may not have actually seen a real version of...... that is prejudice.

Steven you have a point but where does one draw the line between preference & prejudice? Is a strong preference, where one speaks their mind prejudice??? :confused:
Mitch is a new member so he's not aware that this is a rehash for alot of us, but it's interesting to see if the outcome is the same or have some changed their minds?

I don't understand why people are so passionately opposed to the idea of crossing a Phrag and a Paph. If they turn out ugly, they turn out ugly. No harm done. The sun will still rise in the morning. Until you try, you won't find out. Is crossing a Phrag with a Paph really that radically different to crossing distantly related Paph groups such as the multi-florals with the Parvis?

I'd love to be able to combine the colour, hardiness and rapid growth of some of the Phrags with the multi-floral Paphs. Don't know if it can be done, but it is certainly worth a try.

David

I wholeheartedly agree! Why not see what happens? I don't believe they exist and perhaps it is not possible to cross them...but no harm in trying. What if all the breeders stopped trying after their first attempt at some of the crosses we have now? I think plant crossing takes a little practice to get it right.

Steven you have a point but where does one draw the line between preference & prejudice? Is a strong preference, where one speaks their mind prejudice??? :confused:

To me, prejudice is making a judgment (hating or being repulse in this case) without any or adequate information to make a "proper" decision. Some of the comments indicated the repulsion or hatred was of pictures that did not have validation of what they were purported to be. I don't know, just seems awfully premature.

If someone were to say something to the effect that they do not agree with interspecies crossing, that is an opinion.

My feeling is that if it IS possible and the results are perceived by the masses to be horrible, there will not be much of that sort going on. If it comes out wonderful, there would be a lot of fence jumping!!!!!!

I find that of these crossings they will go to leave some aberrations, but with certainty would go to result in many wonderful hibrídos with certainty the same happens with the Cattleya, Laelia, Sophronitis and others as much more.

well I love specie orchids-plants - sorry i find even now that many crosses or either specie do nothing for me - eg look at all the complex hybrids plants - you might get one or two good ones out of a flask - they vary so much - but you get a flask of besseae o.k they vary in colour maybe -- but you have besseae plants .
I admit I do have some hybrid plants -especially phrags and love them -but i still would like to keep the two species separate - because its about my growing plants not hybridizing them ----thats my thoughts