I was out of town for ten days and when I returned I found a lot of my plants were infested with a bug I couldn't identify. Sorry, I didn't take any pictures, I hope you guys can still help me identify it.

I was on most plants, but really did a number to my paphs. Its a sucking insect and leaves damage simular to a heavy infestation of spidermites. The bastards are visible with the naked eye. They are black and skinny. A little shy of 1 mm. They don't move very fast and I can squish them with my finger. I can identify a lot of pests but this on stumps me. I looked in the AOS pest book, but couldn't see anything. Help!

They work fast. I was gone 10 days and there was no sign of them when I left, but heavy damage to some plants when I returned. I don't know where they came from. My only theory is that the warm weather has meant more open windows and the bugs came from outside.

I sprayed all my plants with Malathion on friday. I haven't seen one since. I'm going to do two more applications 9 or 10 days apart. I'm confident that will kill them.

I have two questions: Does anyone know what insect is causing my problems?
And does Malathion or Diazinon have any effect on scale?

Thanks in advance.
Kyle

Did you look at any of them with a magnifying glass since so small? That would help with identification without a picture.

Hi Kyle

They were probably still spider mites or rather mites of one kind or another. Scale is easier to handle - generally a swab and alcohol can/should control smallish outbreaks. But;

Given the number of internal growers on this forum I thought the following might be more appropriate;

http://www.prentiss.com/msds/pdf/655_777.pdf
http://www.greenbook.net/docs/MSDS/M35260.PDF

Cheers
Stephan

Thanks Stephan! Very informative. Kyle I am not sure what they could be, I first thought was mites, but I have not had the pleasure of having an infestation yet. I know what aphids, scale (hard and soft), and mealy bugs look like. Hope it all works out! Sorry!

Thrips, maybe? See if you can find a picture on the internet. Also, I've had some problems with aphids in the last few weeks, they come in various colors and some are quite small. At least I thought they were aphids... The remedy was the same, orthene bomb.

Oh... I don't know if Diazanon works on scale (can you still buy it?). Malathion does work, but not well. The only things I find useful for scale are systemics. Orthene is good, but there are a lot of resistant populations. Imidocloprid (Marathon, or Bayer spray) seems to be the latest, I don't think I applied it right, however, since it only knocked them back. Enstar II, an insect growth regulator (but not a systemic) , seems to work quite well, but it is also expensive.


When I was in Minnesota, Jerry Fischer recommended Marathon II, it is 'translaminar'. It actually penetrates the leaf surface and goes through the plant rather than being absorbed by the roots. Main problem is that it costs $250 for 250ml. I'll try it eventually.


Rob

my guess is thrips

Kyle,

Probably thrips. Mites would take much longer to destroy and aphids generally go for the flowers not the leaves. Both mites and aphids generally attack when the humidity is much too low.

Hi guys,
I'm 100% sure its thrips. Don't know why I didn't consider them... They do work fast! The warm weather while I was away must of sped up their life cycle and it snowballed from there. I havn't sceen any since I treated them with Malathion. I'll have to re-apply it a couple more time to kill the remaining generations.

Thanks stephan for the MSDS sheets. I didn't spray inside. I have lots of experience applying chemicals and get my cholenestrase levels checked twice a year. Safety first!

Diazionon was only outlawed in Canada on Jan 1st 2005. I bought some before that just incase, but its still easy to find places with remaining stock on the shelf.

I would really like to get my hands on some Orthene or Orthenex. Sounds like that would get rid of my lingering scale problem. Its not serious enough to worry about, and my collection is small enough to pick them off, but it would be nice to get rid of them forever.

Thanks!
Kyle

Hi guys,
I'm 100% sure its thrips. Don't know why I didn't consider them...
I havn't sceen any since I treated them with Malathion. I'll have to re-apply it a couple more time to kill the remaining generations.

Thanks stephan for the MSDS sheets. I didn't spray inside. I have lots of experience applying chemicals and get my cholenestrase levels checked twice a year. Safety first!

Diazionon was only outlawed in Canada on Jan 1st 2005. I bought some before that just incase, but its still easy to find places with remaining stock on the shelf.

I would really like to get my hands on some Orthene or Orthenex. Sounds like that would get rid of my lingering scale problem. Its not serious enough to worry about, and my collection is small enough to pick them off, but it would be nice to get rid of them forever.

Thanks!
Kyle

Get Orthene WP (wettable powder) if you can. Some people had some problems with the liquid formulations in the past. That is largely anecdotal, but I'm pretty sure it is safer to start with the powder.

Here is another anecdote to add to Rob's collection...

I used Orthenex on maybe 4 plants last summer. They did NOT like it very much. I over-reacted over mealies, and now I know better but I think the leaves became a bit dessicated looking on three of the four plants I used Orthenex on. I would be wary of using it again.

there is a chemical called conserve sc which is wonderful on thrips
i don't know how it affects orchids, though

I've heard that the WP is better.

Does anyone know of a Canadian source that sells a reasonable amount? Not 10 lbs at a time?

PaphGirl: Were the plant you used Orthenex on, paphs or phrags.

The thrips did the most damage to paphs. beware!

Kyle

Kyle,


I have had better luck with Isotox than orthene WP for scale and mealybug
Isotox is good as well. Three treatments - ten days apart.

Isotox did not interfere with the plants.

All four of mine were paphs. I don't seem to have as many mealy issues w/ Phrags, at least I did not last year - hopefully I won't have a mealy issue at ALL this season! Little beasts! :mad:

You definately have to keep an eye out for these guys, luckily they aren't resistant to my knowledge of Diazinon and Malathion like some populations of scale and mealybugs.

My only bad pesticide experience was with liquid Malathion on Phalaenopsis. It burned the heck out of them and nearly killed a couple of them, yet it didn't hurt the paphs and phrags. It also obliterated a Jade Plant I sprayed within a week...luckily I had unsprayed cuttings as the plant is an heirloom clone from my great grandmother who had it before my parents were born.

I have an old bottle of Chlordane stashed away, but haven't had the need to break it out yet, but if I ever get really frustrated with bugs it's there :evil:

Now for my mystery "pest". The baskets of treefern cubes my Vandas are in are crawling with little brown bugs very similar to springtails only they have wings similar to fruitflies. They are not thrips and do no damage to the plants and have been there for a long time. I don't bother spraying them as they haven't hurt anything...they just cover the surface of my watering bucket when I dunk plants in it. I have searched and compared many possibilities and mutant springtails are the only thing I can figure. I'll try to get a pic, but they're really fast movers.

Jon

I hate springtails - just killed a couple on my kitchen island counter - no plants in site- but it is summer, and I have the "bright light" on. :roll:

Hello , This is kind of mites , use a sulphur with the water

When I was in Minnesota, Jerry Fischer recommended Marathon II, it is 'translaminar'. It actually penetrates the leaf surface and goes through the plant rather than being absorbed by the roots. Main problem is that it costs $250 for 250ml. I'll try it eventually.
Rob

Marathon II is imidacloprid. You must first try to find a systemic miticide before applying that one. In plain old Europe, Marathon has been around for 10 years, and we know that it actually increases mites and spidermites fertility dramatically. Sometimes people use imidacloprid, only to find a month later a massive spidermites attack. And no, some species of mites do not care about humidity.

It can induce some chlorosis as well. 250$for 250mL ? That is a pretty high price. In Europe divide that by 10 ( same AI concentration).

References :
http://www.aenews.wsu.edu/Jan02AENews/DavidJames/DavidJamesPDF.pdf
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted_sites/acarology/saas/e-library/pdf000200/a000193.pdf

When I was in Minnesota, Jerry Fischer recommended Marathon II, it is 'translaminar'. It actually penetrates the leaf surface and goes through the plant rather than being absorbed by the roots. Main problem is that it costs $250 for 250ml. I'll try it eventually.
Rob

Marathon II is imidacloprid. You must first try to find a systemic miticide before applying that one. In plain old Europe, Marathon has been around for 10 years, and we know that it actually increases mites and spidermites fertility dramatically. Sometimes people use imidacloprid, only to find a month later a massive spidermites attack. And no, some species of mites do not care about humidity.

It can induce some chlorosis as well. 250$for 250mL ? That is a pretty high price. In Europe divide that by 10 ( same AI concentration).

References :
http://www.aenews.wsu.edu/Jan02AENews/DavidJames/DavidJamesPDF.pdf
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted_sites/acarology/saas/e-library/pdf000200/a000193.pdf

That is fascinating, because I noticed a dramatic increase in mite damage to my Cynoches after spraying with imidacloprid. Just regular Marathon, not the translaminar kind. I didn't even consider putting the two events together.

Thanks for the info!

Rob