I can't imagine this is a fair price for Cyp. acaule seed. Any opinions out there? Trying to understand, and learn.

Thanks!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3184&item=4389133052&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVWp.

That's a total rip-off imho. We can buy a couple of blooming size acaules for $50 and get our own seed pod. Some people just try and take advantage but sadly it does work too often. Anyone remember the 10yro melted cheese sandwich with the face of Madonna in it or the Elvis head cat hairball or the ghost in the closet that was sold?

LOL...I'm going to kick myself for not thinking of that if it sells. If you want to bid on it, I've got a bridge to sell you...

Jon

Ya, that's what I figured....$750? heeheeheehee! Let's hope that chick in Maine buys it! :nocomment:

It does say that the seed pod will sell so dont regret it! It is absoluteley unbelievable what some sellers will try to do to sell some items. Good luck in the bidding war for this item Paphgirl! :poke:

Sheesh!!!! Even the shipping price is insane. Like it should cost $15 to ship a seedpod???? :|

that is a horrible auction nobody should bid on that!

Only on ebay! :roll:

That does it. This fall I'm unloading a bunch of plants on ebay. This will probably not sell, but there's a sucker born every minute and a Tootsie Pop every 25 seconds. 8)

Ya, that's what I figured....$750? heeheeheehee! Let's hope that chick in Maine buys it! :nocomment:

I think that is probably a typo... Probably meant 7.50 Although may his deity smile upon him if he can get $750 for it.

I have a capsule on a really sweet phrag cross... It has serious potential. We can open the bidding at a mere $500, if you want... :twisted:

I wondered if it was a typo but the $15 for shipping made me re-wonder. I will get to the bottom of this.

I'm gonna give this vendor the benefit of the doubt and figure he is selling a kovachii seed pod illegally and trying to make it look legit. This is the only way I could see a seed pod going for this much.

Jon

I'm gonna give this vendor the benefit of the doubt and figure he is selling a kovachii seed pod illegally and trying to make it look legit. This is the only way I could see a seed pod going for this much.

Jon

He is going to have to try harder than that... Besides, that is stupid. In order to get people to bid on it, he would have to tell several people what it actually was. And at that point, he could probably run the auction without ebay.

Nope, I'm still going with typo as my answer. But I'll lower the opening bid on my phrag cross to $400, just in case. *grin*

Hahahaha!!!

I got a (one-word) response to my inquiry. It's not a typo.

This sentence in the description is rich:
"The pink lady slipper is difficult to propagate so it should only be purchased by people who have a knowledge of orchids."

I suppose I should have run out back into the woods behind my house and pollinated a few of these wild "rare" plants that bloomed back there (In April), if these actually do sell at this price to people who have a knowledge of orchids. One or two pods could go a long way to getting next year's oil bill paid.

This sentence in the description is rich:
"The pink lady slipper is difficult to propagate so it should only be purchased by people who have a knowledge of orchids."

I suppose I should have run out back into the woods behind my house and pollinated a few of the wild plants that bloomed back there (In April), if these actually do sell at this price to people who have a knowledge of orchids. One or two pods could go a long way to gettting next year's oil bill paid.

Is that too much sacarsm? :evil:

I pollinated a few of mine a couple weeks ago. :twisted:
(and no!)

Is that too much sacarsm? :evil:

I pollinated a few of mine a couple weeks ago. :twisted:
(and no!)

I edited that out but you got too it so fast...

I edited that out but you got too it so fast...

Hahaha! Never too much sarcasm for me....and you have to be quick, around here...:poke:

How long does it take for a Cyp seed pod to mature? I think the listing said that it was pollinated on May 8'th. Are they like Paph pods that can take months??

Point being: If it takes several months to mature, why list it now? And how does the seller even know that the pollination was successful?

Inquiring minds what to know. :twisted:

my be a typo or something different, because I could buy 3 boxes of my favorite Cuban cigars for that price

Geez......................to think that I've given mine away for free, shipping included.....................Take care, Eric

If anyone wants seed for a somewhat lesser price, let me know - I can send whatever amounts you want in late September.

Ron Burch

It really is a concern that so much is being sold on E-bay.
Now I am going to be really controversial and say that practically ALL plants are being sold illegally on E-bay. Why????
Very few of the vendors have legitimate permits to send plant material inter-state.
We, as bonafide commercial growers HAVE to have annual nursery inspections. We are given certificates that go with our plants however we ship.
We even have Fire Ant certification
Animals and birds were stopped from being sold on E-bay because of the lack of control so why are plants still permitted. The risk of pests and diseases, virus!! you name it is being spread
I am all for fair competition but this is NOT fair.
I am sure I will be attacked for this opinion but I do look forward to some CONSTRUCTIVE discussion
PAUL @
RATCLIFFE

:shock:

Paul,
Interesting perspective!
Do you know if this is true for most states? I ask because I've always noticed that I get certification documents from you, and another Florida vendor, but I don't think I've gotten them from anyone else. Is it not required that folks send them along w/ all sales from/to other states?

I always wondered about the issue w/ Arizona and California and shipping plants in and out and why that is an issue sometimes, but doesn't seem to be an issue ALL the time.

Here in Oz I'm finding that most of the orchids posted on eBay are overpriced with nurseries also selling online at cheaper prices and a more reliable product. I'm not aware of any requirements here for Nurseries to have any special permits to mail plants interstate although Fire Ants are an issue here in Queensland.

I do know that there are some fairly intense restrictions for importing plants in to Tasmania and Western Australia. The impost, however, isn't placed on the sending business it's placed on the receiver in much the same manner as Imports from overseas would be.

Interesting the way different countries handle this sort of thing.

Cheers
Stephan

It really is a concern that so much is being sold on E-bay.
Now I am going to be really controversial and say that practically ALL plants are being sold illegally on E-bay. Why????
Very few of the vendors have legitimate permits to send plant material inter-state.
We, as bonafide commercial growers HAVE to have annual nursery inspections. We are given certificates that go with our plants however we ship.
We even have Fire Ant certification
Animals and birds were stopped from being sold on E-bay because of the lack of control so why are plants still permitted. The risk of pests and diseases, virus!! you name it is being spread
I am all for fair competition but this is NOT fair.
I am sure I will be attacked for this opinion but I do look forward to some CONSTRUCTIVE discussion
PAUL @
RATCLIFFE

:shock:

I can understand your view on this subject and agree with it for the most part. What are your views on private individuals selling or trading plants amongst themselves as I and others do on this forum? Should we be restricted, also? At what point do we set a limit? I look forward to hearing your comments. I'm betting that you won't be attacked on this forum. I for one feel that this is a place for reasonable discussion, in spite of the fact that we have Tadd! :poke:

Certainly many (probably most but I do not have specific statistics) states in the US require commercial sellers to be inspected and to provide certification information to clients who are out of state. My own state does not require that individuals be inspected to send plant materials across state lines. It does require inspection in order to send plant materials to most, but not all other countries, even by an individual. In the case of the Cyp acaule pod that initiated this string, I am not aware of any state that restricts its collection or transportation across state lines. Many states specifically state this species is not restricted (they do so since they restrict the collection or sale of many other species of Cypripedium).

It is my own opinion that interstate transport of plants or plant parts should not be restricted unless the recipient state prohibits entry for fear of escape and establishment of the plants as noxious weeds (lots of states do this, e.g. Hawaii, Florida, and others for specific species or genera). Restriction for any other reason would be simple censorship. If one is concerned that hobbyist-produced plants or seed compete with commercial growers, then one would by natural comparison also restrict the shipment of e.g. a quilt purchased from a farmer at an agricultural fair in Connecticut to a home in Massachusetts, as that would compete with a commercial mill. Indeed, the same argument can be readily made for the same farmer selling quilts at a roadside stand to other citizens of the same state, or potted tomato plants that will be planted within the same or bordering state. Each of them would compete with a commercial producer.

Inspection, or even prohibition, to keep some specific pathogen or weed from establishing itself in another state is clearly a legitimate reason for censorship of the transportation, but censorship for competitive reasons is specifically illegal within the US (some wine-producing states had not allowed out-of-state wine to be shipped into their states to "protect" their own producers from competition from other boutique bottlers, but the federal courts have made that practice illegal).

Ron Burch

Alright I'll way in on this subject...Heather pumps Iron!!! Hehehehehe. I for one work in a commerical greenhouse, and do not send out paperwork with the plants. Is it a requirement of the state of Florida? We do have free trade amongst the states, so what stays here, stays here... Insterstate Commerce Act does not prohibit the trade good of items from one state to another....However if you buy cigarettes here in NC(tobacco country) for $2.25 a pack and sell them for $5.00 in NY and MI, you will be arrested and fined. Tobacoo is a government controlled good, interstae orchids are not... I confused myself.....Hhhhhmmmmm..... I would much rather deal with a nursery or local grower than anyone on EBAY no matter how good there rating is. With a commercial grower you have some recourse/ guarantee for decent plants. Bad advertisement/word of mouth etc... You may not get the same response form a hobbyist selling out of their spare bedroom. We have not been inspected in the last two years by any official in the great state of South Carolina, and I am unaware of them ever visiting the facility. We pay our taxes/ registrations and thats the end of that. I will ask my boss about it tomorrow. See I can be resonable....... :evil: I wish I could pump iron, all I pump is aluminum... cans that is :poke: Just to let you know Paul, my Papa Rohl and Fairre-Maude Marcus got for me from you guys, are coming along nicely, the Fairrie-Maude is about to Open(Thanks Marcus!) I'll post soon... Wow I type alot!
Tadd :evil:

... in spite of the fact that we have Tadd! :poke:

HAA! This made me laugh REALLY hard.

Alright I'll way in on this subject...Heather pumps Iron!!! Hehehehehe... wish I could pump iron, all I pump is aluminum... cans that is :poke:
Tadd :evil:

This made me laugh really hard too - at TADD! :poke:

Tadd- if you'd like a little help, I think I can dredge up a few killer workouts I made up *just for you*. :evil:

I really need to start working out, I have only been running, need to work on my six pack... Pardon the Pun :poke:

Hi Paul,

I understand your point. The plants I bought from you and Ratcliffe's are the best. I just want to share my ebay experiences with you, as I also buy plants on ebay. Many of the plants I get will arrive with the same nursery certifiication that you mentioned. Many do not. These seem to come from hobby growers who are just selling off some of their collection to make room for more plants.

Perhaps there should be some sort of quantative rule set up on ebay as to when one is a commercial grower or a hobby grower???? I understand that there should be some sort of "level playing field." I believe this should apply for the commercial growers.

I'm not sure about the hobby growers with infrequent sales.

I appreciate your ideas!!!

Thanks!

Hi, Tadd,

Various states do have different rules. Even as a hobbyist I do get inspected once per year here in CT since I sometimes export things so the USDA makes them get involved since USDA does not have inspection facilities in CT. I know that Minnesota has a requirement as I get a good number of seedlings from a commercial nursery there and the box has a MN nursery inspection permit sticker on it and the invoice has a state-mandated statement each time as well. Here in CT, I do not have to put anything on boxes or invoices unless they are going to (most but not all) foreign countries.

As a long-time South Carolinian (1957-1959, 1969 - 1985) I am glad to hear that you still are not over-governed! Another example of that: when my youngest son moved to AZ for college a few years ago, he got a driver's license that expires in 2029!

Ron Burch

Wow 2029! Awesome mine is an 8 year Driver's License - it is a commercial license though.

Interesting to hear what other states mandate. Thanks for the good discussion!

Well I certainly would like a level playing field!!!!!!!!!!!
Having lived here for "only" 8 years I am still finding the ways of US beaurocracy hard to follow
( I thought the European ways bad enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
I understood that ALL states had the same regs.?
Why is it if you are driving a truck or van you are supposed to stop at the inspection station but a large SUV filled to the brim with produce does not??
No, I am not against plant exchange but all these controls add to the costs for commercial growers.
I have heard of some very questionable plants being sent via E-bay and I do not mean illegal!!
I certainly understood that some states such as California and Texas were very strict on the movement of plants.
Maybe they are all golfers!!(That "playing field" is not level) :evil:
SORRY GOLFERS :shock:
It's good to talk
Paul :therethere:

I will chime in here with my opinion as a semi-newbie orchid grower. When I first started growing orchids, it was because my Father in Law (Daddy) would bring me orchids that he would "rescue" from a big chain store. He would wait until they were tossing these plants in the garbage and then haggle with the store clerk and buy 15-30 orchids for $2-3 each. Personally I think the clerk just practically gave him the plants because he wanted the crazy old Vietnamese man to go away :D Anyway, I would get a "gift" from Daddy of about 10 orchids every month that were in various states of life/death/rot/bugs you name it. This is how I learned so much about orchids. I would get this half dying plant and want to save it for my dear F-I-L so I would come to forums like these to try and gain knowledge. Of course "Daddy" tried to give me growing tips but his English is foggy at best and my Vietnamese is reeeeaaallly not up to par. After I researched a fair amount on orchid growing, my little sickly plants started thriving. Now Daddy comes over and says that my plants are all doing better than his! Which has led to his bringing me even MORE plants to save. I would say YAY but I'm a little tired of white phals...and so I started looking elsewhere for more interesting orchids. Ebay was one of the first places I tried. Because I considered myself a novice, spending $20-30 at HD or Lowes on an orchid was too much for me to risk at the time. On ebay I could get so many more things for $10 or even less! I purchased 4 orchids from an ebay power seller with very good feedback. I am not so uptight that I expected them to be flawless (especially at the price I paid), but I knew enough about orchids to recognize an unhealthy one. I couldn't believe that 3 out of the 4 orchids had all rotted roots, fungus spots, sunburn. I was appauled! So my first official orchid purchase, I ended up with 3 more plants to put with my no-root rehab orchids. :mad:

After that experience I decided that it is better to spend more and get quality plants. It is rewarding to rehab a plant...but not if you paid for it! My point is...I think that serious orchid growers are going to go for the quality vendors, and they will be repeat customers. I felt pretty ripped off after my ebay purchase. It was a novice's mistake, but I am not a novice anymore and I will always purchase my plants from recommended vendors.

PS...keep pumping iron Heather! :bowing:

Sorry for the confusion Paul, but we did inherit most of this system from the Brits 200+ years ago :wink:

All states do not have the same regs. The US Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce. Whatever Congress chooses not to regulate is then left to the states to regulate by default.

Sorry for the confusion Paul, but we did inherit most of this system from the Brits 200+ years ago :wink:

All states do not have the same regs. The US Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce. Whatever Congress chooses not to regulate is then left to the states to regulate by default.

All _counties_ in my state don't even have the same rules, as far as I can tell. And I have gotten at least three mutually contradicting opinions about shipping plants. One says that if I ship anything in container I have to have a Japanese beetle inspection yearly, and fully screen the growing area to exclude beetles, but only if I'm shipping to states that do not already have japanese beetles. Wha? That is too complicated for me. And japanese beetles larvae couldn't survive in my potting mix anyway... Another guy, a horticulturalist for the state, says I'm growing 'non-perennial herbacious plants' (at least around here!) and hence I don't have to worry about inspections, but I might need a permit or two. I've tried to navigate our fine state's department of agriculture website, and it is completely useless when it comes to tropical plants. They do suggest that I talk to the county clerk to see if there are any special requirements for my county, and _she_ looked at me like I had sprouted leaves on my head and said that I didn't need to worry about any inspections or permits for what I'm doing.

Sigh... Anyway, since I'm strictly small scale (is 'hobby commercial' a category?) and do 95% of my sales at a few shows in my own state, I've decided to avoid worrying about it for a while. I figure if they can't even get their own website in order, I'm not going to fight it. When and if they notice me, and if they decide that I need more paperwork, then I'll comply. Happy to do whatever is required, if I could figure out what that was... I'll check back every so often to see if they have organized the rules to the point where humans can understand them, of course.

Generally speaking, whether or not one would be considered a commercial entity is probably determined using a combination of factors such as:
- Are you incorporated?
- Do you have plant licenses or permits?
- Do you have business bank accounts? or pay taxes on the business?
- Is the business your main source of income?
- Do you advertise yourself to be a commercial vendor? - as opposed to a hobbyist.
- Would an objective observer reasonably conclude that you were a commercial vendor based on observing you, your activities, greenhouse, etc... In other words, do you look like you're a commercial vendor?
- Would other local businesses consider your plant sales a local business?

None of them alone should qualify or disqualify, but they would probably all be taken into consideration.

For example: A person with a full-time job as an engineer who happens to have a greenhouse would probably not be considered a commercial vendor. BUT, if he also formed a corporation for the plant business, that advertised, and generated significant revenue, then he might be considered a commercial vendor.

Just my humble opinion,

Hi Paul....I hope you pick up on this post. :D

I just checked out Ratcliffe's web page, as I do from time to time, and found Paph. dianthum. This is a new addition!! After my pulse & breathing slowed down, I whipped out my credit card and bought one, and added a stonei to my order as well.

Now these species are something you would probably never see on ebay. Well, hardly ever. I've never seen a dianthum offered on ebay. (OK, there is an ebay seller who sells stonei, but I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole, as it is listed every week like clockwork!)

This, perhaps, is the difference between an established grower as yourself and the ebay sellers. However, I've noticed that some very respectible growers are now selling on ebay. If you were to list some of your items on ebay, I suspect you would do very well. I've seen established growers crossing over and they are doing very well. In some respects, listing on ebay will direct more traffic onto their web pages.

Anyway, I'm just excited that you had a dianthum available on your web page!! They are very hard to find!!!!

Best,

We can't compete with Ebay but Paul, I think you should sell your Paphs right here in the Auction section which is even free to use for now. Go straight for the targeted audience! :D

Better Yet, Pete!!! :D

Hi all,

Fellow slipperhead posting for the first time with few plants on hand, but the collection is growing!

I just want you all to know that I have some really impossible to find, nearly extinct, Cypripediums that are ONLY found in secret parts of Japan. Next fall I MAY have seed available for undisclosed prices (we'll discuss that later). Let's seed if an acaule pod goes for $750, then one of my very rare Cyps should be worth...

At least Ebay gives good laughs.

Tom Velardi

:welcome: to the forum Tom

Cyps huh - don't have any - yet - but I've got some seed in my fridge awaiting the day :)

Looking forward -

Cheers
Stephan

Watch out for that Velardi fellow - he'll sell you spectacular-looking plants and you will be completely addicted!

Ron Burch

Hey Tom, welcome to the forum!
We'll look forward to your posts!

Well I certainly would like a level playing field!!!!!!!!!!!
...
I certainly understood that some states such as California and Texas were very strict on the movement of plants.

Paul

We (Porter's Orchids) learned that, in order to ship to some states, we must have a state inspector from Michigan come inspect the plants we are about to ship and give us a certificate that we then, depending on the state we are shipping to, place on the package or send it to the state's dept. of agriculture. Of course, the inspector doesn't come for free, so that is an additional charge which can be significant.

No, the playing field is not level.

I've been observing that quite a few commercial greenhouses are going out of business lately. A sign of our stressed economy? Competition from "big box" stores? From amateur/orchidophiles who exchange plants or sell them for a nominal fee? From Orchid Societies where members can buy cheap raffle or auction plants? All of the above? Plus eBay...! If it ever was easy to make a living from selling orchids, it certainly isn't now. :!:

Dot

I've noticed that too, Dot -
and how about the daunting task of heating a greenhouse in northern climates with this year's constantly increasing gas prices? We know Sherwood isn't willing to go there....how many more??

Very unfortunate, if you ask me....

I've noticed that too, Dot -
and how about the daunting task of heating a greenhouse in northern climates with this year's constantly increasing gas prices? We know Sherwood isn't willing to go there....how many more??

Very unfortunate, if you ask me....

Unfortunate, indeed. Not only for the commercial growers, but I suspect for us orchidophiles in the long run. As we lose commercial growers, locally, and shipping expenses increase, good plants will become more expensive to own. I doubt if the big box stores, with their maket targeted toward the very amateur grower, will take up the slack for exciting new hybrids and especially for species. I've also noticed that when commercial growers go out of business, and are at an orchid show, they have their prices at rock bottom. Nice fore people buying at the moment, but hard for other vendors present to compete -- so they make less money, making it harder to make a living at selling orchids. A viscious cycle, yes?

If any of you reading this are members of orchid societies, please take a lesson from the pages of the Greater Lansing Orchid Society: when a local vendor was going out of business, GLOS had the presence of mind not to let her sell at the show -- they felt it was unfair to the other vendors, because they knew she would be selling for cheap to get rid of her plants.

I certainly understood that some states such as California and Texas were very strict on the movement of plants.

I am just curious about the restrictions or strictness of Texas laws. I have seen statements about not sending plants to California, Hawaii, and Arizona (or is it Arkansas?), but I have never seen anything about not wanting to send plants to Texas. I haven't had any problems with purchasing plants from any vendor as of yet. Can someone enlighten me? Is there a hidden tax or inspection for vendors selling to Texas?
:?:

I certainly understood that some states such as California and Texas were very strict on the movement of plants.

I am just curious about the restrictions or strictness of Texas laws. I have seen statements about not sending plants to California, Hawaii, and Arizona (or is it Arkansas?), but I have never seen anything about not wanting to send plants to Texas. I haven't had any problems with purchasing plants from any vendor as of yet. Can someone enlighten me? Is there a hidden tax or inspection for vendors selling to Texas?
:?:

If you have purchased from out-of-state vendors, and they haven't charged extra or told you of any issues, then there is probably not a problem shipping into the state. You would need to check with in-state vendors to see what the issues are for shipping from Texas.