I've got a P. besseae that I switched over to S/H a few weeks ago and am using MSU RO formula to RO water at a rate of 125 ppm N.

I grow almost all of my phrags this way, including numerous P. besseae without any problems whatsoever.

Of course, this one, being one i highly value (recently awarded an AM), is not doing well. it started off with only one growth and I noticed on Thursady that one leaf was half black so i cut it off and rinsed the pot thoroughly with RO water and refilled the reservoire with just RO water.

Today, I noticed that that leaf is further blackened and two additional leaves are starting to blacken.

Any times on possibily saving this plant? This is the ONLY plant in S/H that i've had this problem with!

Thanks
Lien

One of my red besseaes went through the same exact thing when I first received it a few months. The plant was in fine condition when it first arrived but very soon the leaves started to blacken and got worse. So, what I did was I gave it less water than usual and ever since the blackening stopped and the plant grew 2 new starts. The plant is now doing just fine and the new growths are growing quite rapidly. Hope this helps and good luck!

This sounds similar to what I've seen in my Dracula's early on (and time to time)

They are very sensitive to fertilizer burn. But try reducing light and temp, and increase airflow and humidity.

You've already done the flushing part.

This sounds similar to what I've seen in my Dracula's early on (and time to time). They are very sensitive to fertilizer burn. But try reducing light and temp, and increase airflow and humidity. You've already done the flushing part.

Thanks, that's what I did, moved it to a cooler spot with a bit less light. Hope it doesn't die!

I gave it less water than usual and ever since the blackening stopped and the plant grew 2 new starts.!

Thanks! I did that too, I removed all the water from the resevoir today. .. so i'm hoping something works! I'm glad to hear though that you were able to save yours. gives me some hope!

Peter, could you post a newer photo of your Wings of Fire please? (I picked out the plant for him at a show - mine (same clone, same grower - bought two weeks prior) never went through this, but his has new growths and mind just growing the same growth, sloowwwly.)

Thanks!

I had the same problem also and I just set it aside and did the same as suggested and it is now outside growing like crazy. It was dunb luck on my part, I set it aside and forgot about it and when I saw it on the floor in front of the fan after a couple of weeks, I remembered that I forgot to doctor it up and had misplaced it :shock: Sometimes a blind squirrel finds a nut.

I find a lot of besseaes sulk when repotted. They might even die back almost completely if divided. But, usually, and if you are patient enough, even the almost 'dead' ones seem to come back like gangbusters.

Now, I just hope my good yellow besseae comes back, it has two 'eyes' and no leaves...

So I have a Hanne Popow with burnt leaf tips as well. I had read that salts were the main cause. However, I use city water and we actually have very low salts (<90 ppm). Nevertheless, I figured that it could be the cause - the water salts likely change wihtout warning in city water. I changed over to distilled water with no results for aobut one month. In fact, the leaves are getting worse.

Just yesterday I read (in Cash's slipper book) that pH could be a major factor. It is suggested that if the pH of the water gets too high the leaf tips will burn and the plant will not recover until more acidic water (pH 5-6) is provided but distilled water is quite neutal (near pH 7) so it does not provide the acidic environment suggested. So I have started to test this as I really have nothing to lose since the leaves are 1/2 gone. I added a teaspoon of vinegar to a gallon of water. I actually do not have a pH meter so I am going to get one to check this out in more detail. I will let you know if this works.

Paul

I've never really trusted "city water" for any plants so I stick with distilled or captured rain water. I mean sure, you can get water evaluations from your local water company but is that the water that comes out of your pipes or just the source that feeds the pipes. This town I live in has hard but decent water but the problem is all the distribution piping is ancient and rusting so all kinds of things are added on the way here.

I completely agree w/ the sulking besseae issue. So far, the mine are doing better, but the first yellow one I got was very tiny, and in bud, and either the flowering started to kill it off, or it was weak or what I don't know, but I lost leaf after leaf and finally the (stupendous) grower replaced it with a much larger one in bud.

So out of curiosity, how many people use city water? I just find that having a hose and turing the water on is too easy. For those that use distilled or rain water what is your delivery method? Do you have complex systems with pumps? I love showering my plants with unlimited amounts of water. I guess that if I am killing the plants then it is not worth it. I would really be interested in your thoughts.

I use regular tap water and I have been doing it for years.

Hmm, been a month or so - how's your besseae doing, Lien? Any improvement, or adjustment to the S/H?

Hmm, been a month or so - how's your besseae doing, Lien? Any improvement, or adjustment to the S/H?

Seems to be doing better. After flushing with ro water, i let the thing sit fairly dry and everytime i watered, i poured out all of the water in the resevoir. The burning stopped spreading and two weeks ago, i started adding just a little bit of water in the resevoir and have been increasing it little by little. so far...so good, but these things are so sulky, you never know.

Good to hear it is doing better....fingers crossed! :)

I added a teaspoon of vinegar to a gallon of water. I actually do not have a pH meter so I am going to get one to check this out in more detail. I will let you know if this works.

Well i,ve recently bought a TDS meter & a ph meter.
My rainwater is ph 6.5 with 10 ppm.
I used 5 litres(just over a gallon) & added 5ml of malt vinegar(about a teaspoon)
Result 3.9ph & 28ppm , i think this would make my plants scream for mercy .
So i would cut back to just a drop or 2.
I tested my tap water & it,s ph is 7.2 & the TDS is 280.

Just realised that LECA is basically inert & does not buffer the water/fert much(if at all)
where as bark or organic medium does buffer the water/fert.

So the vinegar thing is really working out for me. I agree that a pH of 3.2 is too low. I use tap that is ~7. I add about a tablespoon in a gallon to get a pH of ~6. My leaf tips have stopped burning and I have a new growth that looks good. Not to mention the flower. I posted a pic last week.

Paul

Just tried the same experiment with my tap water.
7.1 ph to start & 6.5 ph after(same measurements as with my rain water).

Dwayne,

Have you had much leaf tip burning with your tap water? Have you tried the more acidic water? Let me know if you get the same results. I would like to know that it is the pH and not some other unknown factor.

Great discussion.

Paul

Yes i do get leaf tip burn on some leaves(haven,t used tap water for nearly a year) , my newer Phrags
have not got any or my Phrag Petit Port(mainly the longifolium hybrids).
Need some time to access the difference the lower ph makes to the plants but i have changed
my fert regime which may reduce tip burn any way.
Basically fert on Sunday & rainwater only flushes during the week(i used to fert during the week as well
but only very lightly).My normal fert mix is less than 200ppm with just over 100ppm nitrogen & i
halved this mid week.
I,m still a newbie & i,m still getting a feel for what my plants need.This is why i bought the meters
so i can actually quantify what i,m doing rather than guessing/assuming.

A few comments (take 'em for what they're worth...)

Lien's problem was likey transplant shock and not burning. I don't know what stage of the plant's root growth was, but repotting into S/H (any repotting, actually) should be timed to coincide with very active root growth. Considering besseae's sensitivity, I think it's even more critical.

I grow besseaes at 125 ppm N using the MSU RO fertilizer, and they are just fine. In fact, due to my generically diversified collection, I settled on that for all of my plants and have never seen anything hinting at fertilizer burn in 2-1/2 years of use.

Dwayne: In order to buffer water, minerals must dissolve in it. Well-fired LECA is totally inert. I left a container of PrimeAgra in a sealed container of RO water for over 2 years (it wasn't supposed to be that long, but it got buried in a pile of junk and I forgot about it), and when I opened it, it had a pH of 7.

Don't trust the values of your TDS meter at face value! They are simply cheap quality EC meters with a built-in conversion factor to ppm TDS.

The problem is that the correct conversion is dependent upon what ions are in the solution and in what proportion. It's a matter of ion mobility, which is dependent on size and charge, which varies by mineral. In an overly simplified example, if you have ion A+ at a true 100 ppm you get a fixed EC and TDS. If Ion B++ has the same size as A+ (but twice the charge), and you add 1/2 the actual concentration, 50 ppm, the EC will be the same, so your TDS meter will also show the same, even though it's really only half.

I bought a standard conductivity solution to calibrate my TDS meters for use with the MSU RO fertilizer, which has a documented EC curve. I found that at 125 ppm N, the calculated, true TDS is about 355 ppm, but my two meters show 490 and 600! I still use them to control my dosing rate, but I know to use about 490 and 600, respectively, and not the 355 I'm really shooting for.

Thanks for the heads up Ray.
I,m using the meters as comparators really.Find what works & trying to reproduce
the same values for each watering.